dry ale (lager) rip off recipe/process

[fletcher]

[SIZE=11pt]i understand i might not be making any beer strictly to guidelines but i had a few questions about some ingredients and processes for making a dry type ale, similar in style to a hahn super dry. kind of a cream ale that's quite dry and with minimal hop character.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]i'd be looking at a recipe along the lines of:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]95% pils[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]5% carapils[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]hallertau @ 60 to about 15IBU[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]hallertau @ 5 to about 5IBU[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]63C mash[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]WLP080 yeast fermenting at about 15C[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]1. anything else you could suggest?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]2. any benefits of using rice for this style?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]3. also the best way of using amaylase enzyme. can it be put into the mash? i don't use a secondary fermenter so anything done in the fermenter would need to be in primary. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]any other suggestions welcome.[/SIZE]

 

[manticle]

Dry enzyme.

If you want it really dry and don't want to use this, mash at 61 for 90 minutes and drop the carapils. Chuck in a bit of dextrose to get the gravity you want. For minimal hop character, stick to bittering only.

 

[fletcher]

perfect. thanks manticle. i'll try it without the enzyme at a 61C mash with dex.

 

[Dan Pratt]

Glad you brought this up as Im about to venture a Dry Lager too.

I was thinking along the same lines with creating a dry finish but through the use of a Danish Pilsner Lager yeast that the wyeast site says has a crisp dry finish.

I was planning on using 80% pils and 20% rice, mashing long and low at 63, but now 61c seems the right temp.

Manticle, do you know much about using rice by any chance?

Also, I have heard you say that with lagers, a short rest at 72c will help with the dryness of the beer, does that sound right?

(planning to mash 50c/30m - 61c/60min - 72c/10min - 78c/15min)

 

[fletcher]

yeah. good luck with it mate. i was going to try and cheat using a hybrid yeast and still mashing low etc and seeing what i could manage in a shorter time haha. technically still an ale for me

 

[Dan Pratt]

Hi fletcher,

Im currently into secondary FV with a kolsch using a German Ale yeast but more to the style. I was of the understanding this would take about 3 weeks to ferment a kolsch at 15c like what you intend to ferment your hybrid...... but to be honest I had it in the primary for 3days and now its in secondary at day 5 and nearly finished.

start OG - 1.051
3days primary - Gravity = 1.028
5days secondary - Gravity = 1.015

Target FG = 1.013 - so only a few days to go before largering ( 2 months lagering is the plan )

I got this from using a healthy yeast starter - (packet dated June 8th) 1.2 litres into 20 litres of 1.051 wort - pitched at 17c and cooled to 15c and it had a huge krausen.

If your yeast is healthy, O2 levels right, temps right you should be able to knock it out within 10days, plus with a 90 min rest at 61c the long fermentable chains will be eatin up in a frenzy. h34r:

 

[Nick JD]

Another aspect to keeping lager dry is to make damn sure it has no diacetyl. I've had 1.007 lagers chocka with diacetyl that had a very un-dry mouth feel and taste.

 

[Dan Pratt]

Another aspect to keeping lager dry is to make damn sure it has no diacetyl. I've had 1.007 lagers chocka with diacetyl that had a very un-dry mouth feel and taste.

whats your best advice for avoiding the diacytel?

would you say i need one for my kolsch?

 

[fletcher]

would you recommend fermenting wlp080 with a d-rest given it has lager yeast in it? i was going to for good measure

 

[fletcher]

i've been told that a good diacetyl rest is good for that pratty. where after most of your primary ferment is complete, you raise ferment temps up a bit so the yeast can go to town on whatever is left (not scientific talk there at all haha). i've read that increasing temps to about 20C for a few days usually helps this. correct me if i'm wrong someone.

so if my target gravity is about 1.008ish, then i could technically d-rest at about 1.020 give or take.

 

[Bribie G]

The Danish Lager yeast is in the same family as the yeasts used- in fact- for the likes of Hahn, CUB beers etc. It will ferment quite happily at low teens then let it rise to ale temperatures. For an Aussie style, don't bother with grain adjuncts - just use dex or white sugar to give you about 30% of your gravity (not weight).

I'm entering an Aussie Premium Lager in the State Comp brewed thus, although mine will have more hops, and will be more than ready by August, no need to lager Aussie styles for more than 10 days.

Edit: good bittering hops include Super Alpha, Pacific Gem or even just use 18g of POR pellets for bittering only.

Edit again. Of course the obvious choice for a dry faux lager is Nottingham. Should have thought of that first up.

 

[Dan Pratt]

would you recommend fermenting wlp080 with a d-rest given it has lager yeast in it? i was going to for good measure

from this thread Im now inclined to bring my current kolsch up from 15c to 18c to finish ferment. With current gravity @ 1.015 and a target of 1.013 that temperature increase it should gobble up the rest and that could be my d-rest.

Fletcher,

I would rack to secondary at 1020ish and then do your d-rest at 1.012 which should be enough to get FG.

 

[fletcher]

I don't have a secondary fermenter mate so all mine is in primary. to get some clarity i often cold crash for 5-7 days once fermentation is complete. then I bottle condition and so far all my beers have been quite clear (also use whirlfloc).

I didn't think of notto bribie. I'll use this cream ale yeast (I got it for that beer I mentioned in a previous thread so wanna try it in a few recipes and see how she fares )

 

[Byran]

Howd this end up Fletcher?

Im gonna make a dry light lager today 80% Wey pils 20% rice , magnum for bittering to 12IBU 4.5%ABV WLP800 cause I have some bottled yeast from last pilsner i made.
I really want a creamy lager I hope it turns out that way. Lol.