Does a Lager yeast make heavy Krauzen?

[Byran]

I recently made up a beer with a slurry of WLP800 pilsen lager yeast.
It produced crazy amounts of yeasty foam that invaded my ferment fridge.
I thought this was a bottom fermenting yeast and if so why all the top fermenting.

I pitched another beer onto the yeast cake and it's worse. A lot worse. Even a 8 deg C its having a party in the fermenter and spewing yeasty goodness everywhere. I have to check it daily. This has not happened before.
Just asking for some opinions as I couldn't find any other info on this yeast behaving like this..... Perhaps its contaminated with an ale.....

 

[chefeffect]

Got a picture? Sounds strange, i don't believe an ale yeast would do much at that temp if mixed with a lager yeast, pitching on the old yeast cake would just magnify the last problem really.

 

[donburke]

its unlikely an ale yeast working at low temps

a big pitch (possibly too much) can create a large krausen, and in particular create a fair bit of heat from the exothermic reaction of fermentation

your wort may be warmer than the fridge controller might be reading

how much yeast did you pitch and at what temp was the wort when you pitched ?

 

[Byran]

I was just thinkin of posting a pic but its dropped out today so I cant. Just strange ive fermented a few lagers and this one just seems to be going absolutely crazy. It did go really hard the second time but I only pitched a bit of the old cake not the whole thing. The first one fermented clean as can be tastes great, the second one seems to be producing some sulfur, but its dissipating with a rest. Just made soooo much yeats foam. Constant, hordes.

 

[Byran]

Oh don it was pitched at about 12 deg C onto a bout 2 cups of slurry left over. Then dropped to 9 deg C. Felt cold, really cold to touch. Dropped more to make it slow down. Kept going all guns blazing. Ive never seen anything quite like it. I think it may have been over pitched I didnt measure it. 23 L batch. Just never seen so much yeast on top with a lager. wanted to know if anyone else had any observations or advice to lend.

 

[Byran]

Its almost as if it just kept in the reproductive phase. Forever.

 

[Byran]

Ok I just looked on mr maltys calculator and Its seems I have overpitched the **** out of it. 4 times too much.
Well there you go. So much for guessing...........

 

[donburke]

Oh don it was pitched at about 12 deg C onto a bout 2 cups of slurry left over. Then dropped to 9 deg C. Felt cold, really cold to touch. Dropped more to make it slow down. Kept going all guns blazing. Ive never seen anything quite like it. I think it may have been over pitched I didnt measure it. 23 L batch. Just never seen so much yeast on top with a lager. wanted to know if anyone else had any observations or advice to lend.

2 cups of fresh slurry is way overpitched, i'd say thats why it foaming like dimi does when he sees a valiant

if it tastes good then thats all that matters

i'm doing a euro lager this saturday, 50% floor malted pils, 50% dingemans pils, saaz, 40 litres ferment with bohemian lager & 40 litres fermented with kolsch

i'm excited as i havent brewed in 3 months

how you been mate ? its been a while

 

[slash22000]

For a start, pitching straight onto a yeast cake is overpitching the yeast by like 20x the necessary amount. That might explain why it's exploding, but I don't know jack about lager yeasts, as far as I'm concerned they are some kind of black magic, so there might be some other mystical explanation.

 

[donburke]

if its still going berko, drop the temp to 5 degrees until the krausen starts to come back, then raise it back to 10 to finish off

 

[Byran]

Haha ha Yeh it seems my guessing has caused me some bother. It was only 2 cups of slurry not the whole cake, but I really only need half a cup for a lager yeast as per Mr malty. Well trial and error has got the better of me this timne. Still tastes ok though so lucky me.


Don, mate dimi hasnt even pitched the wheat cube you gave him last year........... But he has had time to buy a new house, new car, put new parts on the new car, have may Bbqs, ect. Ha ha, im pretty keen to make a choc porter and a mild. Im sure you will have no problem, filling your kegs again, how many is there now, 20? Ill come round for a brew arvo if your keen?

 

[Parks]

The krausen will just be wort foam the same as you get when you aerate.

donburke - 2 cups of yeast slurry would be correct pitching rate for a lager (assuming slurry means everything left in the fermenter after a batch). 2 cups of actual clean yeast would be a shedload.

 

[Byran]

The krausen will just be wort foam the same as you get when you aerate.

donburke - 2 cups of yeast slurry would be correct pitching rate for a lager (assuming slurry means everything left in the fermenter after a batch). 2 cups of actual clean yeast would be a shedload.

I thought about that mate, it just seemed like yeast so I said **** it, and I top cropped a jar of it to confirm. It looks like a clean top cropped jar of fresh yeast to me. But like I said, I have used this yeast before and other lager yeasts and cant remember this happening. Overpitching makes sense....but im no expert.

 

[donburke]

The krausen will just be wort foam the same as you get when you aerate.

donburke - 2 cups of yeast slurry would be correct pitching rate for a lager (assuming slurry means everything left in the fermenter after a batch). 2 cups of actual clean yeast would be a shedload.

mr malty reckons a thick slurry at 25% non yeast requires about 120ml for a fresh harvest, assuming 23 litres of 1.048

given the results he's experiencing, i'd say its an overpitch

 

[Byran]

Thats how I interpreted the mr malty calcs as well. I just thought it would be ok and here we are.......... Im silly

 

[donburke]

Haha ha Yeh it seems my guessing has caused me some bother. It was only 2 cups of slurry not the whole cake, but I really only need half a cup for a lager yeast as per Mr malty. Well trial and error has got the better of me this timne. Still tastes ok though so lucky me.


Don, mate dimi hasnt even pitched the wheat cube you gave him last year........... But he has had time to buy a new house, new car, put new parts on the new car, have may Bbqs, ect. Ha ha, im pretty keen to make a choc porter and a mild. Im sure you will have no problem, filling your kegs again, how many is there now, 20? Ill come round for a brew arvo if your keen?

i think we need to brew a triple batch of a 1.100 beer, its been a year since our last one, hard to overpitch that !

 

[Parks]

mr malty reckons a thick slurry at 25% non yeast requires about 120ml for a fresh harvest, assuming 23 litres of 1.048

given the results he's experiencing, i'd say its an overpitch

Yeah, could be.

I know all the guys I have talked to have always said "1 cup of slurry for an ale" and these are experienced brewers. My expectations with that are generally 1 cup will have probably 1/2 cup of leftover beer and then the non yeast portion.

I also thought (going against my first argument a little...) that Mr Malty gives you a pitching rate which will leave no growth phase when you pitch.

 

[Parks]

I thought about that mate, it just seemed like yeast so I said **** it, and I top cropped a jar of it to confirm. It looks like a clean top cropped jar of fresh yeast to me. But like I said, I have used this yeast before and other lager yeasts and cant remember this happening. Overpitching makes sense....but im no expert.

I never seem to get enough yeast into lagers so in some ways I'd be excited to see this

I have a feeling there is a big difference strain-to-strain on how they behave.

 

[Byran]

i think we need to brew a triple batch of a 1.100 beer, its been a year since our last one, hard to overpitch that !

A belgian of some description? Or maybe something experimental?

 

[donburke]

Yeah, could be.

I know all the guys I have talked to have always said "1 cup of slurry for an ale" and these are experienced brewers. My expectations with that are generally 1 cup will have probably 1/2 cup of leftover beer and then the non yeast portion.

I also thought (going against my first argument a little...) that Mr Malty gives you a pitching rate which will leave no growth phase when you pitch.

i dont often pitch from slurry, but when i do i try to seperate the trub, then pour the yeast in a schott bottle which has measurements on it, gives a good idea of how much pure yeast is in there after it settles

my understanding of mr malty is that it allows for the growth of the colony in the fermenter, and that you should pitch what it comes up with