Dme Quantity Question

[floydmeddler]

Hi all,

I've decided that I want to stop using dextrose when brewing my beer. I used to use 1kg of the stuff but want to make the move to using DME only. Do I go for 1kg or should I use more?

Cheers!

Floyd

 

[Gavo]

From my very limited experience of using LDME in place of Dextrose, I have used 500gr LDME and 500gr dex, I would say that if you use 500gr or more you will need to balance it with some flavoring hops hops at least. Mine, with the above are very malty, not all bad. The other more experienced guys here will be able to give you more of an idea.

Its a good move to get away from using the k of dex only. Next thing is, are you still using the kit yeast? If so ditch that also and go for a better yeast. I have done this using SafeAle US05 and there is no turning back now.

 

[Pennywise]

Dextrose is 100% fermentable and DME is about 75-80% fermentable from memnory. So I would be using about 1.5kg for a 23 litre batch, or you could use the same amount as you were dex and just make smaller batch's. You will find your beers will have alot more body and you may want to add some late hop additions to balance out some of the sweetness left by the non fermentables in the DME. What sort of kits do you brew?

 

[buttersd70]

All malt is definately the way to go. HB79 is pretty close in general terms. Basically, swapping 1 for 1 will give you the same OG (give or take a point), but the FG will be higher. For comparison, for 23L, and assuming 75% yeast apparent attenuation :
1 tin + 1kg dex OG 1039, FG 1007, 4.25% ABV
1 tin + 1kg ldm OG 1039, FG 1010, 3.88% ABV

To make all things equal in the wash,
1 tin + 1.2kg ldm (or 1.5kg liquid), OG 1043, FG 1011. 4.21% ABV ; this has the advantage of being able to go all liquid

Either way, it would need additional hops to balance the sweetness, but it would be a much better beer.

 

[floydmeddler]

OK folks, thanks for your replies.

Here is my 23 litre Dark Lager recipe. This will be my second time using these ingredients (apart from the Light Dried Malt Extract of course) and I have tweaked it to suit my taste preference and of course the taste preferences of my friends who drink it for me!

Muntons Premium Lager kit
1.2kg Light Dry Malt Extract
230g of crushed Chocolate Grain (20 mins)
40g crushed Roasted Barley (20 mins)
40g Hallertau (50 mins)
Half tsp Irish Moss (15 mins)
Saflager Yeast

Look OK? Also, about these balancing hops... any suggestions or will the Hallertau suffice?

Thanks
Floyd

 

[cdbrown]

Just wondering if someone could explain the boiling times I've seen on different posts. Is the time following the ingredients the time in the boiling water so hallertau would go in, then 30mins later the choc and barley, 5 mins later Moss, 15mins later dump into fermenter?

Hoping to do some kit brews early next month now that some kegs are becoming available and wouldn't mind trying out adding some different ingredients to get a better beer.

 

[MCT]

Just wondering if someone could explain the boiling times I've seen on different posts. Is the time following the ingredients the time in the boiling water so hallertau would go in, then 30mins later the choc and barley, 5 mins later Moss, 15mins later dump into fermenter?

Hoping to do some kit brews early next month now that some kegs are becoming available and wouldn't mind trying out adding some different ingredients to get a better beer.

Normally when it's written Hallertau 20 mins, it means 20 mins from the end of the boil. So it will be boiled for 20 mins. Hope that makes sense.

 

[buttersd70]

As far as grains are concerned, the times are the length of time the grain is steeped, which is done before the boil. The times for the hops and other boil additions (such as Irish moss, in floyds recipe) are as MCT said, timed from the end of the boil.

So for your floyds specific example,
230g of crushed Chocolate Grain (20 mins)
40g crushed Roasted Barley (20 mins)
means the grains are steeped at 60-70 degrees for 20minutes. The grains are then discarded, and the resulting wort is added to the kettle and brought to the boil with all or some of the other fermentables.

40g Hallertau (50 mins)
Half tsp Irish Moss (15 mins)

meaning that the hallertau is added 50minutes before the end of the boil, and the Irish moss is added 15 minutes before the end of the boil (35min after the hallertaur).

 

[cdbrown]

Thanks for the quick replies guys - I'm glad I asked as I had it completely wrong.

Now steeping - I just tried to do a search on that word in the hope of a good description, but the search engine started getting angry. Is it just a matter of having a pot of water at 60-70 degrees and chucking in the grains and leaving them sit there at that temp for 20mins. Discard the grains through straining the liquid?

 

[buttersd70]

Yeah, pretty much. You need to crack or crush the grain first, though. The accuracy and size of the crush is not hugely important, it doesn't have to be milled to a specific size or anything like that (although if you can get it milled, great. There are all kinds of convoluted ways to crack small quantaties of grain, rolling pins, mortar and pestle, etc, and they are all a pain in the proverbial. :lol: )

There are a couple of ways to do a steep. The first is the hot steep, which is done at 60-70 (ish.) The temperature is not overly critical, as long as it doesnt go over about 77-78C. Thats when tannins are released from the husk making it astringent. Some soak the grains, strain and discard. Some soak the grains, strain, then rinse the grains again in fresh water, in the low 70s. I don't think one over the other is better, as with steeping, there is generally a very high water to grain ratio anyway. (normally a couple of litres for about 2-500g of grain.) The grains used for steeping have already had the starch converted to sugar as part of the malting/kilning process, so all youre doing is disolving this sugar in the water, anyway. You get a small amount of fermentable sugar, but the main aim is to get colour and grain flavour.

The other method is to soak the grains in cold water for a much longer period, ie overnight. Strain, discard, and then use the water. I have done it both ways, and can find no compelling reason to reccomend one over the other.

Any water from a steep needs to be boiled, though, to sanitise it, cos grain has all kinds of bugs over it.