Designing a Kilkenny Clone Extract

[PhilipB]

Mashed

Hi Jack,

I have never mashed! What do I do?

Philip

 

[Gigantorus]

There is only 400g or so of grains in there Pete. 3kg of liquid.

Eitherway, I would replace the Amber liquid with pale, knock the RB and Crystal 10 on the head and use as much Caraaroma as you need to get your colour. It adds a very nice red hue, beautiful taste and you wont need a lot. I love the stuff. Just an option anyway- will probably turn out better than the original.

Oops. Sorry about that chief Right you are.

 

[Gigantorus]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Phil,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]re mashing/steeping. Mashing is for base malts that need at least 60 mins of soaking in hot water to release the sugars. Steeping is for specialty grains that only need 30 mins to release the sugars.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Just buy a large grain bag from your local home brew shop. Then all you need to do is put the cracked grain in the grain bag and put in the pot and cover with hot tap water (around 65C to 75C temp). Something like 1.5 litres of water per 500grams of grain. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Then once the time has expired, lift the bag out and let the liquid drain back into the pot - give a very light squeeze once the liquid has nearly stopped running out of the grain bag (but not too hard - so say that will impart harsh flavours if squeezed too hard). Then discard the spent grain (keep the bag for next time). The boil the liquid to pasteurise for about 15 mins to 30 mins. During this time you can add hops (hops early to give bitterness and hop late in the boil to add flavour & aroma).[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I do extract brewing and regularly add up to 1.0kg to 1.5kg of specialty grains to add extra flavour to the dry & liquid malt extract.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Cheers,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]Pete[/SIZE]

 

[Rocker1986]

+1 for CaraAroma. Bloody beautiful malt and a large part of the flavour of my own house red ale. :wub:

 

[PhilipB]

Phil,

re mashing/steeping. Mashing is for base malts that need at least 60 mins of soaking in hot water to release the sugars. Steeping is for specialty grains that only need 30 mins to release the sugars.

Just buy a large grain bag from your local home brew shop. Then all you need to do is put the cracked grain in the grain bag and put in the pot and cover with hot tap water (around 65C to 75C temp). Something like 1.5 litres of water per 500grams of grain.

Then once the time has expired, lift the bag out and let the liquid drain back into the pot - give a very light squeeze once the liquid has nearly stopped running out of the grain bag (but not too hard - so say that will impart harsh flavours if squeezed too hard). Then discard the spent grain (keep the bag for next time). The boil the liquid to pasteurise for about 15 mins to 30 mins. During this time you can add hops (hops early to give bitterness and hop late in the boil to add flavour & aroma).

I do extract brewing and regularly add up to 1.0kg to 1.5kg of specialty grains to add extra flavour to the dry & liquid malt extract.

Cheers,
Pete

Pete,

My recipe calls for flaked barley. I understand it is normally mashed.

Can I simply steep it or do I have to boil (mash) the flaked barley?

Phil

 

[Droopy Brew]

Boiling isnt mashing.
A mash is basically a steep but for a bit longer. Steep for an hour at between 64C and 70C and voila- you have mashed. Do this with all of your grains- if you are mashing the flaked barley you may as well throw the rest in with it.

Now regardless of whether you steep or mash, the resulting liquid will need to be boiled once the grains are removed.

 

[PhilipB]

Boiling isnt mashing.
A mash is basically a steep but for a bit longer. Steep for an hour at between 64C and 70C and voila- you have mashed. Do this with all of your grains- if you are mashing the flaked barley you may as well throw the rest in with it.

Now regardless of whether you steep or mash, the resulting liquid will need to be boiled once the grains are removed.

Thank you appreciate this.

 

[Jack of all biers]

Philip, you will need a base malt in addition to your flaked barley to conduct a mash. The reason for this is base malts like pale malt, Vienna, pils, etc contain enzymes that convert the starches in the grains (in your case flaked barley) into sugars. With specialTy grains the sugars were produced in their production and you are just rinsing them out as opposed to producing the sugars in a mash. For more info google how to brew by john Palmer for a better explanation of what can be steeped and what needs to be mashed.

 

[Jack of all biers]

Now that I'm home and not on the mobile. Here's the link to the relevant chapter 12 about grains and chapter 13 is about steeping.
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-2/what-is-malted-grain/barley-malt-defined

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-2/what-is-malted-grain/other-grains-and-adjuncts tells you directly about flaked barley needing to be mashed with base malts.

The whole manual is worth a read at some point, but pick out the relevant sections to your current methods and you will gain a far better understanding of brewing. There are lots of other brewing books, online literature etc that is also out there. Let the learning begin.....

 

[PhilipB]

Philip, you will need a base malt in addition to your flaked barley to conduct a mash. The reason for this is base malts like pale malt, Vienna, pils, etc contain enzymes that convert the starches in the grains (in your case flaked barley) into sugars. With specialTy grains the sugars were produced in their production and you are just rinsing them out as opposed to producing the sugars in a mash. For more info google how to brew by john Palmer for a better explanation of what can be steeped and what needs to be mashed.

Now that I'm home and not on the mobile. Here's the link to the relevant chapter 12 about grains and chapter 13 is about steeping.
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-2/what-is-malted-grain/barley-malt-defined

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-2/what-is-malted-grain/other-grains-and-adjuncts tells you directly about flaked barley needing to be mashed with base malts.

The whole manual is worth a read at some point, but pick out the relevant sections to your current methods and you will gain a far better understanding of brewing. There are lots of other brewing books, online literature etc that is also out there. Let the learning begin.....

Thank you Jack.

I think I will look at amending my recipie to remove the flaked barley as I am not sure my supplier will provide such a small quantity alone to do a mash with.

 

[Jack of all biers]

No worries. I would leave it out, unless you want un-converted starch in your beer. I'm sure your supplier would sell you any quantity of any grain you want, but would you really want to do a partial-mash with 200gm flaked barley and say 1 kg pale malt anyway. Not sure the flaked barley would add anything that critical to your brew that couldn't be made up with a small amount of another specialty grain that you can steep. Maybe swap out the flaked barley for 50-100 gm of Carawheat (Weyermann EBC 110-140) for the added body and head retention qualities that flaked barley would give you if you mashed it. Or if you don't want the added colour of the carawheat, swap it for 200 gm of Carapils for the head retention. Meloiden malt (Weyermann) is also a good one for Irish reds as a steeping grain adding body, maltiness and a red colour.

 

[PhilipB]

No worries. I would leave it out, unless you want un-converted starch in your beer. I'm sure your supplier would sell you any quantity of any grain you want, but would you really want to do a partial-mash with 200gm flaked barley and say 1 kg pale malt anyway. Not sure the flaked barley would add anything that critical to your brew that couldn't be made up with a small amount of another specialty grain that you can steep. Maybe swap out the flaked barley for 50-100 gm of Carawheat (Weyermann EBC 110-140) for the added body and head retention qualities that flaked barley would give you if you mashed it. Or if you don't want the added colour of the carawheat, swap it for 200 gm of Carapils for the head retention. Meloiden malt (Weyermann) is also a good one for Irish reds as a steeping grain adding body, maltiness and a red colour.

Thank you Jack.

I have updated my recipe to remove the flaked barley.

Cheers,

Philip

 

[PhilipB]

After much thinking, tweaking, questions, to mash or not to mash, ingredient supply / availability, I have come up with the following:

Ingredients:

0.50 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain
0.50 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (19.7 EBC) Grain
0.18 kg Roasted Barley (591.0 EBC) Grain

2.50 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract
0.35 kg Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 EBC) Sugar

20.00 g Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 50.0 min
25.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.90 %] - Boil 45 min
25.00 g Challenger [7.50 %] - Boil 40.0 min
Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)
15.00 g East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.00 %] - Boil 15 minutes

1.0 pkg Irish Ale Yeast (White Labs #WLP004) Yeast

The only reason I am throwing the dextrose in is I have that already

Batch Size (fermenter): 25.00 l

Estimated OG: 1.042

Estimated FG: 1.009

29 IBU
27 EBC

Will be steeping my grains. Est total wort liquid 5.5 litres

Some DME in the wort for hops boil with the dextrose topped up to 8 litres in the pot

EST ABV in the bottle 4.7% after priming

 

[PhilipB]

Got my ingredients today

Waiting for my brown beer to be done before I brew up this.

This is the first time I have designed a beer, so I am really excited to have the ingredients to brew it.

B)

 

[Rocker1986]

Good luck with it mate, hope it turns out well for you!

 

[Gigantorus]

How did it turn out, Phil?

Cheers,
Pete

 

[PhilipB]

Hi Pete,

I am waiting to clear out my brown beer from the fermenter and planning to put this on in the week between Christmas and new year.

I am using a 100 litre techni ice esky as my cooling system and I have one fermenter that fits inside it.

I am hanging to get this one on the boil.

 

[Gigantorus]

No worries, and good luck with the brew, Phil.

I'm still tossing up as to what will be my first brew for 2017. English IPA or Black Ale with coffee & rum infusion.

Cheers,
Pete

 

[PhilipB]

No worries, and good luck with the brew, Phil.

I'm still tossing up as to what will be my first brew for 2017. English IPA or Black Ale with coffee & rum infusion.

Cheers,
Pete

Bottled the brown beer.

I am on track to do this one on Thursday after Christmas

 

[Matplat]

Don't wait 3-6 months for your brown ale! should be tasting good after 1 month!