Confusion About Lagering

[manticle]

I have a lager style brew on that's been fermenting 7 days in an ice bath that sits between 12 and 15 degrees C. I know that's a little high but I'm working with what I have.

It uses a lager yeast and my very hastily hobbled together understanding of the process is that it should be in primary for at least another week, be allowed to rise in temp briefly (maybe a day or 2 out of the ice?) and then be transferred to another vessel and refrigerated at about 2-3 degrees with a touch more of the same yeast fr several weeks before bottling.

Have I read this correctly? It's currently sitting at 1020 and has been for some time but I think my fermentables were too high.

Recipe may be fnd here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=30478.

Final question - during the secondary/cold storage/lagering?? is it best left completely alone - no need for hydrometer checks etc?

Cheers.

 

[Steve]

I have a lager style brew on that's been fermenting 7 days in an ice bath that sits between 12 and 15 degrees C. I know that's a little high but I'm working with what I have.

It uses a lager yeast and my very hastily hobbled together understanding of the process is that it should be in primary for at least another week, be allowed to rise in temp briefly (maybe a day or 2 out of the ice?) and then be transferred to another vessel and refrigerated at about 2-3 degrees with a touch more of the same yeast fr several weeks before bottling.

Have I read this correctly? It's currently sitting at 1020 and has been for some time but I think my fermentables were too high.

Recipe may be fnd here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=30478.

Final question - during the secondary/cold storage/lagering?? is it best left completely alone - no need for hydrometer checks etc?

Cheers.

Yep - let it ferment out. Bring out of the ice bath, let it sit for a couple of days (diacetyl rest), rack to secondary and lager for as long as you want...and yes leave it alone - no need for hydro checks. Do not use extra yeast when bottling. There is still enough to carb up the bottles. What yeast did you use?

Cheers
Steve

Edit: Just read your recipe. Is the brewcellar lager yeast definately a lager yeast?

 

[matti]

If the orignal gravity or opening gravity was about 1.040 +
You should rest the beer NOW at about 18 degrees no higher for 48 hours.

transfer the beer in a sanitary fashion with out introducing any oxygen to a second vessel.

The idea from hereon is to allow the beer to ferment out then reduce the temperature slowly so you don't shock the yeast.
That way the yeast will still work during the lagering period to clean up the residual flavours.

If this is your first attempt, I'd suggest to let it ferment out completely in second vessel before you lower the temperature to 2-3.

If you have a stuck ferment raising the tempeture will kick start it again and you can rouse the yeast with swirling the fementer around.

Next time pitch 2 sachets of yeast.

As for taking hydrometer samles out of your secondary.
The less you touch it the better the beer will be off.

Normal lager schedule for me is 7-10 days in primary, 7 days in secondary.
I dont tranfer or touch the secondary for weeks.
Most times it that long that i don't even bother taking a FG reead out as I keg.
But if you bottle I'd suggest you do.

matti

 

[manticle]

Edit: Just read your recipe. Is the brewcellar lager yeast definately a lager yeast?

According to this link it is originates from Germany and is bottom fermenting.

http://www.homebrewinn.com.au/beer_yeast.htm

Thanks Matti. I'll pull it out of the ice now for a bit.

 

[manticle]

Normal lager schedule for me is 7-10 days in primary, 7 days in secondary.
I dont tranfer or touch the secondary for weeks.

matti

Actually that's slightly confusing. You transfer to secondary and leave secondary for 1 week but you also leave it for several weeks??

Do you mean it is left for 7 days at low temperature then taken out of the fridge and just left for several more weeks before bottling?

 

[razE]

Lift the temp to about 18 degrees on the last stages of fermentation. Genereally in the last 24-48 hours of fermetation. Could be now, could be left a little longer comes down to experience). As i understand this allows the yeast to eat up the diacetyl and stop producing it. Someone else can chime in on this for more of a technical view. Then rack into your secondary container and lager for 3 - 4 weeks at 2 - 4 degrees. Then bottle/keg.

 

[WitWonder]

According to Noonan, the diacetal rest (which he points out is a relatively modern technique) should be done about 1.006 above your anticipated terminal gravity. It should be raised to greater than 11deg C for between two and seven days.

 

[shayne]

According to Noonan, the diacetal rest (which he points out is a relatively modern technique) should be done about 1.006 above your anticipated terminal gravity. It should be raised to greater than 11deg C for between two and seven days.

What would happen if you get the timing out? I have one (Coop. Euro) in for 14 days now. just hit 1.010 (almost FG). I was about to cold crash it (I don't have secondary tools...) but thought perhaps I should do this 'rest' first. I don't know if I've left it too late, or what might happen if I bring it up to a higher temp. for a day or so.

I notice from my last batch that they aren't particularly carbonated (same process, cold crash and then bottled, left at fermenting temperatures for two weeks and then have been lagering at about 1-2C ever since, about a month). Drinkable but not like my ales. Coopers say 3mths in the bottle, so was hoping that would sort them out but wonder if they will ever be any more carbonated or something happened that prevented the yeast from from getting through the primers. any tips would be good, I have 3 batches in at the moment of this stuff....

 

[WitWonder]

What would happen if you get the timing out? I have one (Coop. Euro) in for 14 days now. just hit 1.010 (almost FG). I was about to cold crash it (I don't have secondary tools...) but thought perhaps I should do this 'rest' first. I don't know if I've left it too late, or what might happen if I bring it up to a higher temp. for a day or so.

I notice from my last batch that they aren't particularly carbonated (same process, cold crash and then bottled, left at fermenting temperatures for two weeks and then have been lagering at about 1-2C ever since, about a month). Drinkable but not like my ales. Coopers say 3mths in the bottle, so was hoping that would sort them out but wonder if they will ever be any more carbonated or something happened that prevented the yeast from from getting through the primers. any tips would be good, I have 3 batches in at the moment of this stuff....

If the yeast is fully attenuated raising the temperature in primary won't do anything AFAIK - the yeast have basically finished their job and there's nothing left for them to consume so they will start to die off. Having said that, turning the temp up for a few days before you crash chill won't do any harm.

Also, don't confuse a diacetyl rest (which is for the purpose of removing diacetyl) with resolving carbonation issues in your finished beer. Certainly my understanding is that your carbonation should be basically finished within 2-4 weeks (I assume you're priming with something, otherwise expect a much longer carbonation time) so no, it's unlikely they will become more carbonated than what they are currently. Did you prime with the same amount in each batch?

 

[shayne]

thanks! i'll turn the temp down again this morning getting ready for bottling, as I think it's done too. i left it overnight with the fridge off (~18C)

To prime, I used a measuring thingy and castor sugar, so 'same' yes -but not particularly precise or accurate....

what would happen if i pulled a bottle out of lagering (to room temp for a few days/a week) to see if it would carbonate a bit more (by a 'squeeze test' on the PET, the only way I could measure it)?

would this interrupt/ruin the lagering process? this is where i'm a little hazy, whether once you start lagering you should keep them lagering until consumed or it's a process that has a natural end and you could chill them again after having them in storage for a while ie. would they still be 'lagered'?

 

[Steve]

The lagering/cold conditioning happens before you bottle. When you decide to stop lagering, bring it up to room temp and THEN prime your bottles. Then leave them at room temp to carb up. If you prime them and chill them again you will be waiting twice as long to carb up as the yeast will go to sleep and not be able to eat up your priming sugar enough to carb them up.
Cheers
Steve

 

[shayne]

thanks steve. so the only way to really lager is with a secondary? if i don't have one and going straight to the bottle (with priming sugar) is there any point in lagering after the carbonation has finished or is this now pointless?

i'll try bringing one out of the fridge and see if 'seems' more carbonated after a couple of weeks at room temp.

 

[Bizier]

If you can store bottles upright in the fridge for as long as possible, more little tiny things should fall from suspension leaving you a cleaner beer.

But then you have to pour with a demon hand to make use of it.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Lagering can be done at any stage be it in a bottle or a conditioning tank or fermenter.What you dont want to do is change the temps all the time its bad for the beer.I always lager in the secondary after reaching near final gravity and then transfer to kegs and force carb.Your beer will not condition/mature well if its not on the yeast.I am talking lagers/pils here.Lagering temps for me are ~ 3 C set by cool room temps.So you can bottle then lager after you have got your carbonation.
GB

 

[manticle]

I have a second fermenter but at the moment it's full of cider. If I crash chill my primary after diacetyl resting will it still work as a lagering process?

Obviously it's not ideal but is it COMPLETELY pointless?

 

[Steve]

I have a second fermenter but at the moment it's full of cider. If I crash chill my primary after diacetyl resting will it still work as a lagering process?

Obviously it's not ideal but is it COMPLETELY pointless?

Depends how long you intend to lager for. Its best not to leave it on the primary yeast cake for too long. Time to buy another fermenter I think.
Cheers
Steve

 

[manticle]

Depends how long you intend to lager for. Its best not to leave it on the primary yeast cake for too long. Time to buy another fermenter I think.
Cheers
Steve

That was what I thought but I was hoping to get away with it. Now that I have Thursday off I might as well fork out the extra dollars.