Colonial Kolsch Attempt

[Kai]

I agree Randall - i brew with US56 all the time & never had a diaceytl issue EVER.
I've also tasted some great Kolsch made with it that has all the winey charater & fruity notes associated with a good Kolsch. I'm sure a true Kolsch yeast would give you the edge, but don't for 1 minute doubt that US56 isn't up to the task, because it is...

How do you get the winey character in the koelsch from this yeast while avoiding it in other beers?

 

[hughman666]

i think the winey character comes from the off-boil nelson sauvin, at least, that's why i'm using it....

 

[wee stu]

yep i think that the clarity issues i had were from too low a temp during the primary - 14c was probably pushing it for this style.

I think 14c is pushing it for your chosen yeast, not for the style per se. Traditional kolsch yeasts, though top fermenting, apparently like it cool. Maybe one of the wyeast or white labs kolsceh, alt or european ale yeasts might perfom better in this style?

Kolsch, still very much an enigma to this diminutive brewer <_< .

 

[Ross]

How do you get the winey character in the koelsch from this yeast while avoiding it in other beers?

From your choice of malts & hops...

I have never made a Kolsch, but I've tasted plenty, & as I said, an excellent one not long ago made from US56.... If you don't want to use it don't - but saying it can't make a good Kolsch is incorrect.

cheers Ross

 

[Aaron]

Seems like we are becoming like the Americans and trying to use "calale" in everything. If you want to use these American yeasts go for it. You will probably produce something that would score well according to BJCP criteria. You won't produce a Kolsch that is accurate to the real thing.

We can do whatever we want with beer and maybe it's good. this doesn't make it accurate.

If we want to get technical none of us can make a Kolcsh because, as far as I am aware, none of us are in Koln.

 

[Ross]

Aaron,

All the articles i've read on making Kolsch have stated, that most good high-attenuating Ale yeasts can be used to make a decent Klsch-style beer, including US strains.
I'm not arguing that the specific Kolsch strain isn't going to give you the best result, all other things being equal; but to dispell all other yeasts as no good, is incorrect.

Anyway, guess we'll beg to differ on this one

cheers Ross

 

[PostModern]

My second ever AG was a Koelsch-style beer fermented with US-56. While it was a great beer (depsite low primary fermentation and extended lagering, it was cloudy), it was nothing compared to the Koelsches fermented with Koelsch yeast strains by Doc and Duff that I've tasted in NSW Xmas cases. With respect, Ross, those articles you've read are probably from the US?

 

[Kai]

How do you get the winey character in the koelsch from this yeast while avoiding it in other beers?

From your choice of malts & hops...

I have never made a Kolsch, but I've tasted plenty, & as I said, an excellent one not long ago made from US56.... If you don't want to use it don't - but saying it can't make a good Kolsch is incorrect.

cheers Ross

Hops I can understand as far as perhaps some nelson sauvin if you want to slip some of that white grape flavour in, but surely purely the choice of malt can't bring about those flavours?

 

[Ross]

My second ever AG was a Koelsch-style beer fermented with US-56. While it was a great beer (depsite low primary fermentation and extended lagering, it was cloudy), it was nothing compared to the Koelsches fermented with Koelsch yeast strains by Doc and Duff that I've tasted in NSW Xmas cases. With respect, Ross, those articles you've read are probably from the US?

Here's one Link

cheers Ross

 

[PostModern]

My second ever AG was a Koelsch-style beer fermented with US-56. While it was a great beer (depsite low primary fermentation and extended lagering, it was cloudy), it was nothing compared to the Koelsches fermented with Koelsch yeast strains by Doc and Duff that I've tasted in NSW Xmas cases. With respect, Ross, those articles you've read are probably from the US?

Here's one Link

cheers Ross

Yeast Most good high-attenuating Ale yeasts can be used to make a decent Klsch-style beer. Wyeast 2565 is specifically designed for Klsch-style beer, as is White Labs Klsch (reportedly from PJ Frh). 1007 German Ale is another good choice, and even 1338 European Ale or Chico 1056 can be used. Basically anything that can ferment very clean at room temperatures strong esters are verboten in Klsch and can attenuate in the 80-85% range.

Perhaps it was my skill to blame

 

[hughman666]

Basically anything that can ferment very clean at room temperatures

as i mentioned before, i think it was the 14c primary temp which was to blame. attempt #2 is currently sitting at 21c and is bubbling away like krakatoa

will post a comparative pic when it's ready in a fortnight...

 

[DJR]

My 2c to a slightly old thread

US56 might sort of give you a decent result but you would have to create VERY ideal conditions for it - up the wheat component and use some hops such as NS to give the winey profile. It will attenuate to the right level with probably a single infusion at 66C. You want to add some esters for the winey profile which Chico isn't really known for so you may find underpitching or pitching slightly cold would create yeast growth and throw a bit of extra esters. Doesn't add sulfur too which is an important background flavour in some Kolsch, although a cold ferment, say 13-15C with US56 might stress it out a bit and create a bit of sulfur. Watch out for diacetyl at those temps though...

If you are thinking of attempting a Kolsch, use the right yeast from the outset, WLP029, Wyeast 2565 Kolsch, WLP036 Alt or Wyeast 1007 German Ale, or any other Kolsch/Alt/German ale yeast. You will have to do MUCH less work to make the beer taste correct. WLP029 is a great yeast and works fine at 19C, super clean even at those temps. K-97 may work too and i may do a small batch experiment vs WLP029 to prove/disprove that theory at some point.

One of these days i'm going to save up a lot of money and buy the Weihenstephan Kolsch strain...

Edit: just realised that the Weihenstephan 165 Alt/Kolsch strain shares numbers with the Wyeast 2565 - so i suspect that that yeast is from Weihenstephan. There is supposedly another yeast strain, W177 for Kolsch. Doesn't really matter since there are 5 widely available directly pitchable, already propogated strains out there...

 

[Stuster]

Again guessing from the numbers, do you think K97 could be that Kolsch 177 strain, DJR?

 

[DJR]

Again guessing from the numbers, do you think K97 could be that Kolsch 177 strain, DJR?

Who knows. It would be nice if it was Shame that i already pitched my Kolsch this morning, could have run the K97 test!

There is some speculation that the K97 is from Zum Uerige which would make it the same as WLP320 American Wheat which is another kolsch/alt strain. That or German Ale 1007 as the equivalent. But probably not 177, not that it really matters, there's enough choices out there to make decent Kolsch...

 

[DJR]

FYI Wyeast have told me that 2565 is NOT weihenstephan 165. I emailed them yesterday and they denied it. Must be something else.

Who's up for getting 500mL of Weihenstephan 177 direct from the yeastbank themselves for the low, low price of about $640 including courier delivery? :lol:

At that rate, split into 20 25mL vials each one would cost about $32 :lol:

 

[Lindsay Dive]

Merry everything to all.

I recently made a Kolsch using the Wyeast 2565 and have found that I have the cloudiest creation of all time. I noticed at the time of fermentation that this yeast behaved in a very similar manner to a real top cropping wheat yeast similar to WLP300.
Wyeast website claims that this yeast (2565) is is a poor flocculator and the beer needs filtering to produce a bright beer or 'as they say' time will produce a clear beer.
In the past I have used the Whitelabs WLP029 with fantastic results.
Does this yeast clear at all with time or do I tell my drinking friends it's a weird tasting Hefe?
I will not use 2565 agian!

Regards,
Lindsay.

 

[razz]

Lindsay Drive. I concur on the yeast taking time to floc out. I've used 2565 in 2 ales and they lagered for approx 3 months, but, they turned out crystal clear. A side note for DJR, I fermented these at 63 degrees and they turned out great !