Collecting Yeast

[Golani51]

liquids are a little more pricey here, and we're all really cheap.

It is true. We can pay $15 for a good smackpack, and that cuts into drinking cash.
How often have you had to pay $10 for a pint of ESB, or the same for a glass (330ml which is like 2/23 of a gallon in US speak of something resembling Harpoon Leviathon Series IPA (/yyyyuuuuummmmmmmmmyyyyyy).

It is expensive to be a snobby drunk here.

 

[gone_fishing]

Acid washing (occasional ) and a complete microbiological assessment/culturing prior to pitching. I dont think I have missed the point (perhaps I have) but comparing Anchor Steam protocols to as the OP asked "Collecting yeast" for the typical homebrewer are extremes apart.
My point was that collecting yeast as a homebrewer is almost like doing a natural ferment. I would suggest that a homebrewer should not use yeast more than twice and only if they are feeling particularly lucky.
gf

 

[gone_fishing]

Thirstyboy????

Out of curiosity what would you estimate the annual megabrewery yeast maintenance costs are?

GF

 

[black_labb]

I've been top cropping some 1469 for about 7 brews? I've directly top cropped some and I keep some in the fridge under saline solution (table salt and boiled water @9g/L) so that I dont need to brew batches too close together.

I do 40l batches in 2 cubes (I cube hop so the beers can be fairly different as I get alot of the IBU from the cube hopping). If I use the same yeast for the beers I pitch into one, then top crop to the next once the ferment is going hapily. I was very organised one week that I was able to do another brew right away and top crop onto that one (and again for the second cube).

when I top crop to keep I boil about 750ml of water with 7gm of table salt for 15 mins, then I cool it (sink then freezer). I use a sanitised spoon with holes in it (what you would use to collect poached eggs from a pot of boiling water or similar). I collect the top cropping yeast with the spoon then rinse the spoon in the cooled saline solution. I repeat until I've collected a fair bit of yeast. That goes into a sanitised longnecked.

I dont know how long I can expect to do this, I'm going to do some reading about acid washing so that I can be comfortable with doing things like this.

I am breaking the cycle though and using some recultured coopers yeast. Not much cheaper than a smackpack when you use 3 longnecks, but the yeast is good and drinking 3 longnecks of CPA isnt too much of a punishment.

I'm about to break the cycle

 

[Wolfy]

I've been top cropping some 1469 for about 7 brews? I've directly top cropped some and I keep some in the fridge under saline solution (table salt and boiled water @9g/L) so that I dont need to brew batches too close together.

Whats the theory (refrence etc) for using a saline solution rather than distilled (or plain tap) water?

 

[QldKev]

It seems to me like hairs are being split here.

We can all agree that some sort of "change" happens after using the same yeast for so long, yet people are really shy about calling it a "mutation".

I'm not knocking the logic (or lack thereof) at all, its just a tad bit comical.


Anyways, my personal feeling on re-using yeast is "Why bother"? So many yeasts are essentially the same and its easy enough to find the same qualities in both liquid and dry forms that culturing, storing, then using the required DME to make a starter isnt excatly beneficial considering I can buy a good pack of dried yeast for a few bucks. Now if I'm doing a special brew like a belgian requiring that typical belgian spice or a german wheat, I may be inclined to spend the $8 to get that required taste. However, 95% of my brews its only me drinking on, so I really dont care. I seperate my yeast by "malt oriented" or "hop driven".

Just my .02

I'm saying from my homebrewing experience I can not notice any direct change in the yeast after the second use. I assume the difference between the first and second is more to do with pitching rates.

Maybe if the beer was not brewed in a controlled environment at a set temperature it could mutate? Maybe this is why some people talk about it. If you brew on 1272 at 22c and throw fruity flavours, then maybe the yeast do indeed become adapt to that environment. Use the same yeast cake at 16c will result in this unreliable flavour phenomenon. It is also a possibility if you live in the southern states (southern states of Australia) without a temp control environment, that due to the higher temperature variations will allow the yeast to mutate more. I'm only speculating here, but this would explain since I do ferment in a temp controlled environment and always use the same temperature for the given yeast, I don't notice it.

We must have different taste buds, because I think there is a huge difference in the final beer from the use of different yeasts. I know one local highly awarded brewer on sampling one of my beers told me which yeast strain I had brewed on, so I'm guessing he can taste the difference too. He will always use the yeast to match the beer.

For costs, I normally run two fermenters. Over say 10 brews.
Option A. A Smack pack is $9.80. So if I use fresh yeast every time, thats about $20 per brew. Over ten brews that is $200.
Option B. If I grow yeast from a test tube I will need 400g LDME, at around $3. Then I reuse the yeast cake for the next 9 brews. Over ten brews that is $3.

I've got no issue with spending money for my hobby. But rather than spending the $ on something that I do not believe will make my beer better I would prefer to spend it on something that will help. That $197 ($200 - $3) saving from the yeast buys some nice s/s fittings, or a March pump.

QldKev

 

[black_labb]

Whats the theory (refrence etc) for using a saline solution rather than distilled (or plain tap) water?

I read it somewhere on here. The idea is to match the ion concentration inside the cell walls of the yeast on the outside to reduce the transfer of ions across the cell wall which can degrade the yeast.

That's my memory of what I had read, some details could be wrong but I'm pretty sure it's accurate enough.

 

[chiller]

Acid washing for the home brewer is not difficult to do but does require care in approach. Usually it is done with phosphoric acid at a temperature of about 1 - 4c at a ph of 2.1 - 2.5 for 45 minutes to 90 minutes. When the washing is finished add to a starter to get it going again and brew. Acid washing will not kill wild yeast.

I have one yeast I have used over many generations and I periodically acid wash it. That yeast is now in constant use for 9 years. Is it the same as when it was first used? Probably not, but it is still making very good beer.

I would also be interested in the reference to the saline storage of yeast because on the surface 9gms per litre is a reasonably saline solution. My concern would be the dehydration of the yeast cells over time due to osmosis [less salty yeast to more salty solution]. That may not be the case but if you doubt the saltiness of the solution add 9gms to 1 litre and taste it.

The other thing of concern is iodised salt which will definitely impact on your yeast sample. If this is a proven method double check the type of salt you use.

Hopefully more information can be posted as this may well be another way to maintain our precious little friends .

Steve

 

[Wolfy]

I read it somewhere on here.

I read the same, somewhere, but do not recall where. Nor have I found much/any reference to it elsewhere, so I'd be curious to know if it works better than plain/distilled water, which I've kept washed yeast-slurry in for almost a year.

 

[black_labb]

Acid washing for the home brewer is not difficult to do but does require care in approach. Usually it is done with phosphoric acid at a temperature of about 1 - 4c at a ph of 2.1 - 2.5 for 45 minutes to 90 minutes. When the washing is finished add to a starter to get it going again and brew. Acid washing will not kill wild yeast.

I have one yeast I have used over many generations and I periodically acid wash it. That yeast is now in constant use for 9 years. Is it the same as when it was first used? Probably not, but it is still making very good beer.

I would also be interested in the reference to the saline storage of yeast because on the surface 9gms per litre is a reasonably saline solution. My concern would be the dehydration of the yeast cells over time due to osmosis [less salty yeast to more salty solution]. That may not be the case but if you doubt the saltiness of the solution add 9gms to 1 litre and taste it.

The other thing of concern is iodised salt which will definitely impact on your yeast sample. If this is a proven method double check the type of salt you use.

Hopefully more information can be posted as this may well be another way to maintain our precious little friends .

Steve

Hi steve

I was surprised at the 9g/L as it does seem quite high.

I cant really compare between water and saline for yeast storage. I've done both but with different yeasts. amounts ect.

I think I'm going to try and find some more information. I didnt take much away from it aside from just the method.

 

[chiller]

These links may give those interested in yeast a few nights reading.

http://www.ibd.org.uk/cms/file/1154

http://www.ibd.org.uk/learning/learning-re...ist/?groupID=51

Steve