Clear Candy Syrup Vs Destrose?

[brettprevans]

Di-ammonium phosphate, eh? Hmmmmm.

you use DAP in making mead also

 

[Nick JD]

you use DAP in making mead also

Who sells it? It seems hard to find.

I have some phospheric acid, but it sounds like the ammonia reacts in the sugar to create tasty byproducts of caramalization, which makes it better.

 

[crozdog]

one explanation for the difference could be that Belgian candi sugar is made from sugar beets not sugar cane. i dunno if beets produce any compounds other than sucrose or ratio of compounds compared to cane that would impact the taste.

As far as the invert goes, I've made some successful belgians by simply using white sugar poured into the boil. i reckon there is no issue with this as candi sugar production sees sugar boiled with an acid. Isn't our boiling wort acidic? Therefore if i simply chuck white sugar into my boiling wort the sugar will get inverted in my kettle meaning I don't need to make candi seperately on the stove :super: - unless I want dark candy or to make the kids stick-jaws :lol:

DAP can usually be found in wine making suppliers eg
http://www.wmss.com.au/products/yeast-mlf-...hate-d.a.p.html
http://www.winequip.com.au/wine-additives/
http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/index.php?cPath=280_294_299

Anyone in Sydney interested in splitting a kilo?

 

[manticle]

Who sells it? It seems hard to find.

I have some phospheric acid, but it sounds like the ammonia reacts in the sugar to create tasty byproducts of caramalization, which makes it better.

Di ammonium phosphate is used as a yeast nutrient in wine making so a decent homebrew/winemaking place should stock it. I've used it as a nutrient in ciders before - bought it from cellar plus in Victoria (North Melbourne) but I guess you could order it from a wine-making supply shop.

 

[manticle]

one explanation for the difference could be that Belgian candi sugar is made from sugar beets not sugar cane. i dunno if beets produce any compounds other than sucrose or ratio of compounds compared to cane that would impact the taste.

As far as the invert goes, I've made some successful belgians by simply using white sugar poured into the boil. i reckon there is no issue with this as candi sugar production sees sugar boiled with an acid. Isn't our boiling wort acidic? Therefore if i simply chuck white sugar into my boiling wort the sugar will get inverted in my kettle meaning I don't need to make candi seperately on the stove :super: - unless I want dark candy or to make the kids stick-jaws :lol:

The only issue I can see with this is that cane sugar is often added after high krausen in Belgians to rouse the yeast and increase attenuation. Too early can (supposedly) lead to the yeast munching all the simple sugars then falling asleep before finishing of the nutritious maltose.

However if it works for you etc etc.

 

[gap]

The only issue I can see with this is that cane sugar is often added after high krausen in Belgians to rouse the yeast and increase attenuation. Too early can (supposedly) lead to the yeast munching all the simple sugars then falling asleep before finishing of the nutritious maltose.

However if it works for you etc etc.

I have read most of the bokks on brewing Belgian Beers , Brew Like a Monk etc and cannot remember any reference to adding sugar post boil.
The Belgian yeasts are used to high Gravity worts . I would like some references to back the theory that you must not add your sugar to the boil
because of the reasons you have stated.
I am happy to be proven wrong. It adds to ones education. I just dislike statements such as this one being repeated without solid evidence to back it up.

I am not having a go at you, manticle, or anybody else. I would just like some scientific backup to the statement.

I have used 3787 in high gravity Belgian Ales adding sugar or candi syrup to the boiler to the boiler, without having any trouble with the yeast.

Regards


Graeme

 

[manticle]

Well my 2 qualifiers were 'supposedly' and 'if it works for you'. I have no major scientific reports - the only reference I really have comes from wyeast suggestions/instructions re: 3787 and a Jamil podcast I'd have to search for.

I have added candy sugar at the beginning of a wort and ended up with overly sweet cloying syrup and added through the ferment and ended up with balanced, dryness and maltiness but there were so many other varying factors between both brews that I couldn't swear to anything.

I'll see if I can hunt something up but my above statement was not phrased as a definitive "I know everything" dogma to be taken as undebatable fact and shouldn't be taken as such. Perhaps I should have said 'potential issue'.

 

[manticle]

This link is also interesting re: beet vs cane.

Obviously it's nothing definitive or empirical - just one guy's internet notions but something to think about nonetheless.

http://www.fermentarium.com/content/view/238/58/