Clear Beer

[jayandcath]

Well it seem to me that clarity has a lot to do with process, filters are great in a short amount of time but won't remove chill haze (from my experience) but gelatine does a good job with a little time. The thing that shits me is that using the latter is that when decanting a 9L for a party at a later stage, it can stir up and looks cloudy.

Anybody else found this.

Jay

 

[ChrisECarpenter]

Can anyone comment on filtering a carbonated beer?
I have bought a blow-off valve recently, intending to carbonate in place by holding pressure (eg 15psi) through the primary ferment.
However, if the filtration is going to flatten the beer then is there really any point?
If so, should I just be adding some fining adjuvants at the start of fermentation, and then rolling the keg over once the ferment is done to mix them back in and speed up dropping the solids out.
Cheers-
Chris

 

[AussieJosh]

Nick did you use finings in that beer?

 

[BeerSwiller]

I used to use gelatin, and crash chill, wait, ext.
Now I just drop to 0c, add 7.5g polyclar per 23lt, filter the next day..... Diamond bright!

Oh little off topic, but how much polyclar per 23lt does everyone use?

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Can anyone comment on filtering a carbonated beer?
I have bought a blow-off valve recently, intending to carbonate in place by holding pressure (eg 15psi) through the primary ferment.
However, if the filtration is going to flatten the beer then is there really any point?
If so, should I just be adding some fining adjuvants at the start of fermentation, and then rolling the keg over once the ferment is done to mix them back in and speed up dropping the solids out.
Cheers-
Chris

You can filter carbonated beer without flattening it in any way - but its a bit of a process and if you aren't careful and thorough it can get messy and also lose a chunk of your carbonation. Doable for sure if you are set up for it though. Search for some of Zwickel's posts on filtering, he always filters carbonated beer IIRC.

Your ferment will go better if you dont have it under (carbonating) pressure the whole time - let it ferment under ambient or only very slight overpressure and screw down that PRV when you have say 1/4 of your extract left to ferment. That will be way more than plenty for carbonation but your yeast wont have to deal with the pressure and the high levels of dissolved Co2 for the majority of the time its trying to do its work.

After a bit of practise you will be able to work out exactly the point at which you need to cap off the pressure. Remember a liter of 1050 wort has about 50g of sugar in it - a teaspopon or so of it is enough to give you the carbonation you need.

You cant really put your finings agents in at the start - theres a big chance they will do their job before the yeast is finished doing its job and leave your beer underattenuated and full of diacetyl and acetaldehyde. Or if the yeast does manage to fight through it... That means its pretty much used up the finings agents and then there wont be any left to do the job at the end. You could probably figure out a way to make it work, but it would take a bit of trial and error.

 

[Guysmiley54]

On a related topic:

What happens in a bottle conditioned beer? I beleive a 1 micron absolute filter will still leave enough yeast for carbonation. After priming, surely the yeast multiply and create more matter that needs time to flock out? Is that how it works? I don't have a filter and I'm curious how this works.

I must say that I have just started using gelatin and I'm impressed with the result so far. I bottle conditioned a batch with gelatin and find that even after carbonation the yeast settles out quicker. Although the beer has a strange plasticky out of focus look (like jelly?) that un-gelatinised beer doesn't have...

 

[wombil]

After looking closely at the posts regarding this subject,[the whole 46 of them], whilst I am by no means an excellent braumiester,it seems that both sides have a valid argument.
On the question of clarity,Thirsty Boy V's Nick JD,Thirsty's is very clear,has the trees upside down and very little head.Nick JD's is also very clear but has a better head,[not by much].
Therefore I would say that Nick JD's beer is the winner,altho the trees are upside down in his pic too.
Both beers are probably superb but can you please do something about the upside down trees.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

On a related topic:

What happens in a bottle conditioned beer? I beleive a 1 micron absolute filter will still leave enough yeast for carbonation. After priming, surely the yeast multiply and create more matter that needs time to flock out? Is that how it works? I don't have a filter and I'm curious how this works.

I must say that I have just started using gelatin and I'm impressed with the result so far. I bottle conditioned a batch with gelatin and find that even after carbonation the yeast settles out quicker. Although the beer has a strange plasticky out of focus look (like jelly?) that un-gelatinised beer doesn't have...

A 1 micron filter, although on the surface it shouldn't, seems to let through enough yeast to allow carbonation in the bottle. Basically its just a fancy "sediment reducer" if you use it that way. You still get yeast in the bottle, but its the absolute minimum that you can have and still naturally carbonate. When i have seen it done (I've only done it myself on occasional bottles) it takes significantly longer for the bottles to carbonate with the minimal numbers of yeast in there. You might also be asking too much if you were to try it on say a strong beer where the yeast is likely to struggle a bit with carbonation anyway.

If you can see an "effect" from the gelatin, you are probably using too much of it. Gelatin is a protien and in and of itself can cause a protien haze of sorts. Wine guys would counterfine it with bentonite or something like that, bit hard to do it the finished beer bottle though. Just use a little less next time till the problem goes away.

Gelatin (or even better isinglass) does a wonderful job on clearing beer up - Nick's photo shows just how clear you can get a beer with finings agents. Its pretty spectacular. If filtering isn't for you... What you are left with is a pretty damn servicable option.

 

[Ross]

Unfortunately a lot of people are comparing there gelatined beer with beers filtered through $50 ebay filters & there's a reason they see no difference, or struggle to filter a cloudy beer h34r: .
Get the right equipment & you'll filter cloudy beers no problem (mine get just 24hrs crash chilling after ferment finishes & i can filter 3 in a row without blockage).

Cheers Ross

 

[Aus_Rider_22]

Unfortunately a lot of people are comparing there gelatined beer with beers filtered through $50 ebay filters & there's a reason they see no difference, or struggle to filter a cloudy beer h34r: .
Get the right equipment & you'll filter cloudy beers no problem (mine get just 24hrs crash chilling after ferment finishes & i can filter 3 in a row without blockage).

Cheers Ross

Interesting. I will put my recent result down to dry hopping and not letting the hops settle out for long enough.

 

[brettprevans]

you guys are so shallow and like women. always worrying about looks!!!

ill chime in as im a long time supporter of leave your beer alone and dont screw with it. except for comps. but then again i hate the idea of plastic finings in my beer. and cold conditioning for a good amount of time does the same thing.

gelatine i can live with and am considering starting up after seeing good results. but only for comp beers. less faffing around with the beer god's product the better.

edit
Best place/time to gelatine is when kegging your brew after crash chilling the fermenter (gelatine is more effective when added to cold beer, but either way...).

solution of 1 teaspoon of gelatine to 100ml of boiling water in a pyrex dish or similar, stir it until fully dissolved, then pour it into the keg before you fill it with beer (adding the gelatine solution, then following it with beer helps the gelatine solution mix right through).

After 4 or 5 days at low temp, your first couple of pints should be yeasty (hmm yeasty gelatin beer - good for BMs), then nothing but clear beer.

 

[argon]

...snip... but then again i hate the idea of plastic finings in my beer. and cold conditioning for a good amount of time does the same thing.

gelatine i can live with and am considering starting up after seeing good results. ...snip...

Funy cause, I'm of the absolute opposite opinion... perfectly happy to use and inert product like polyclar (PVPP) that is then filtered out rather than use stinky Gelatin that's made from pig's arse-holes and ball sacks dissolved in acid, filtered out or not.

 

[brettprevans]

Funy cause, I'm of the absolute opposite opinion... perfectly happy to use and inert product like polyclar (PVPP) that is then filtered out rather than use stinky Gelatin that's made from pig's arse-holes and ball sacks dissolved in acid, filtered out or not.

yeah but arseholes and ball sacks are natural :icon_cheers:

 

[goomboogo]

yeah but arseholes and ball sacks are natural :icon_cheers:

I went to the pub the other day and discovered they no longer served beer in glass. The barman was told there was no way I was drinking beer out of a plastic cup. He said, "don't worry, our cups aren't made out of plastic. They're made out of porcine rectums and scrotums." I was much relieved to hear this and ordered some beer. The best thing was, I couldn't tell the difference between glass and pig's arse.

 

[Phoney]

I wonder what would happen if you dropped in half a dozen pigs trotters into your boil to make an aspic of beer? Would it ferment?

 

[Nick JD]

Nick did you use finings in that beer?

Just Ward's (purple container) Gelatine from coles ... teaspoon into 100ml cold water, wait 10 minutes, then brought up to 70C for a few minutes and dumped in. And polyclar stirred for 30 seconds in a half cup of boiling water. 36 hours each at 12C with S189 yeast. Then the hose straight into the keg.

And also, just to reiterate - the $50 ebay filters work perfectly and will achieve the same clarity as the photo I posted, even if you don't crash chill for 24 hours.

 

[Wolfman]

When gravity filtering my beer from the primary fermenter it seems to come out quicker than it goes in. Hence I think I maybe Exposing my beer to oxygen? I have tried restricting the flow, of both inlet and outlet. Any ideas?

 

[Nick JD]

I've been using Gelatine for a few years now, no problems - although I often find that if a beer is going to drop naturally then gelatine doesn't always speed up the process. However define "bad run" pls?

Last time I used 3068 in the keg it dropped so bright I got sad. Just changed the label above the tap from Hefe to Kristal

 

[Nick JD]

When gravity filtering my beer from the primary fermenter it seems to come out quicker than it goes in. Hence I think I maybe Exposing my beer to oxygen? I have tried restricting the flow, of both inlet and outlet. Any ideas?

It's really handy to install an inline tap on the "out" tubing. Get the entire filter filled by venting the air and when there's no airlock in the system, open the tap on the out hose to the keg. It'll filter faster too.

But most the the "air" in the filter headspace is dissolved CO2 coming out of solution. Keg to keg filtering is much easier. Dumping finings in and waiting three days is easier still...

 

[Steve@PMF82]

edit
Best place/time to gelatine is when kegging your brew after crash chilling the fermenter (gelatine is more effective when added to cold beer, but either way...).

To quote Thirsty Boy in this thread http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...49253&st=60

" This is a common misconception"

For me the few times i used gelatine on 1 - 2 degrees beer it took a lot longer to drop bright than doing it straight after /in primary around ferment temps.

cheers