Clear Beer

[Hoeders]

should I thrown the cat amoungst the pidgeons and raise the debate of filtering under pressure breaking beer cells etc. it is a friday afternoon afterall

Seeing i have never had any expierence with filtering, would be interesting to hear peoples theory's

 

[brettprevans]

thers a whole heap of stuff on ahb almost everytime the topic of filtering comes up. I cant remember any real detail as I have no desire to filter my beers. Thirstyboy and a few others would have a heap to say on the topic

 

[Thirsty Boy]

There is a bit of talk that filtering under high differential pressure might damage the filters themselves - but thats pressure from one side of the filter to the other, not the whole system under pressure.

I got a little foaming the couple of times I have filtered carbonated beer - but only in the filter housing, and only becasue it was warm at the start. But as Zwickel said, its a closed system just like a CP filler, so at the end of the day, the foam settles and everything is good.

Its a little bit harder to filter under pressure, and I usually don't. But if carbonating naturally is important to you, then you really have no choice if you want to filter. I personally think that dissolved C02 is dissolved C02 and so I just push it into the beer later because that makes my life easier.

Zwickel - I can see that you wouldn't be able to filter through a 0.02micron or through the cascade via gravity - it does work with a single 1.0 micron filter though, if your beer isn't completely sludgy anyway. I normally gravity filter directly from the fermenter into the keg Pumpy style. Is there any particular reason you went with the pump rather than pushing via C02 pressure?

 

[Zwickel]

I personally think that dissolved C02 is dissolved C02 and so I just push it into the beer later because that makes my life easier.

TB thats right, I think so too, CO2 is CO2, nothing else, but to carbonate a liquid that has no CO2 from begin, takes a certain time to diffuse the CO2 homogeneously within the whole beer, unless you are shakin zhe keg like crazy

Thats the point where I gotta say, naturally carbonated beers make my life easier

Anyway, in my system I havent beer without CO2, to no time, so I dont need force carbonation.

Zwickel - I can see that you wouldn't be able to filter through a 0.02micron or through the cascade via gravity - it does work with a single 1.0 micron filter though, if your beer isn't completely sludgy anyway. I normally gravity filter directly from the fermenter into the keg Pumpy style.

yeah TB, thats right too and I have to admit, its not necessary ro search for a filter with a pore size of 0.2, I just got it by chance and now Im using it.
But other hand, my tests with 1 micron filters were not completely satisfying for me, there was still a little cloudiness in the beers.

Is there any particular reason you went with the pump rather than pushing via C02 pressure?

for me its easier just to leave the keg standig where it is (mostly in the converted freezer), connect the two kegs eachother and switch on the pump. After 5 to 10 min. the beer is transferred, thats easy, isnt it?

If I would press the beer through the filter with CO2, then the beer carbs up and releases the overplus of CO2 in the receiving keg (due to the delta P), a lot of foam would be the result.
Anyway, youd waste a lot of the expensive CO2 gas either.

I think I have to explain a little bit my system, so it will be easier to understand why Im doing things like I do:

More than 90% of my beers are Pilseners and Im using the same yeast for all of my Pilsener/Lagers.
So I know by experience when the time has come for racking the beer into kegs. To that time it will be the 5the day of fermentation, SG will be around 1010 to 1012 that time.
Im going to rack the beer into kegs and leave it at fermentation temp (8C) for another 3 days in the closed kegs, then put it in the cold (0C).
Whilst that 3 days the beer narurally carbs up to around 100KPa. Later in the serving fridge the beer will hold around 80KPa, just right to drink.

We have a rule of thumb that says: rack the beer just 4 points over the FG, that means, if your beer usually reaches FG 1008, then you have to rack it at 1012.
The final 4 points are just enough for an ideal natural carbonation.

So after a certain time I can decide wether to filter the beer or to leave it like it is.

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[technocat]

Zwickel: I might be missing something here but if the receiving keg is the same pressure as the dispensing keg zero flow will result. Therefore the valve on the receiving keg is open. The point I was trying to make was that carbonating beer prior to filtering in my experience leads to a heap of foam out through this valve and really not a good idea. I agree double & triple filtering will result in a clearer beer and my prime aim is to strip the yeast out, as yeast in beer is not to my taste. I am not being critical as we all have different approaches to how we brew and that's what makes this forum interesting.
As for cleaning filters and kegs I have started using compressed air because as you say CO2 is expensive.

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[Mitchell]

I might be missing something here but if the receiving keg is the same pressure as the dispensing keg zero flow will result. Therefore the valve on the receiving keg is open. The point I was trying to make was that carbonating beer prior to filtering in my experience leads to a heap of foam out through this valve and really not a good idea.

Ross's thread explaining balanced keg transfer in more detail may shed some light on the matter for you.

Keg Transfer Made Easy

 

[Pumpy]

I gravity filter all my beer with the 1 micron absolute pleated filter

I do not filter real cloudy beer ,I always chill it to allow the yeast to flocculate as much as is possible .and I dump the first half pint of heavy yeast that settles in the tap .

This allows the filter a good chance of filtering the whole 40 litres batch

I do have two filters just in case it cannot handle the last ten litres but have only ever had to change the filter twice .

It should handle 23 litres fine but dont expect to filter a beer with high levels of yeast in suspension with the gravity method

It should take about a litre a minute to filter a 23 litre batch

Pumpy

 

[Pumpy]

Ross's thread explaining balanced keg transfer in more detail may shed some light on the matter for you.

Keg Transfer Made Easy

That is such a good link it makes transferring beer to kegs so easy.

well worth a read .

Pumpy

 

[KHB]

I gravity filter all my beer with the 1 micron absolute pleated filter

I do not filter real cloudy beer ,I always chill it to allow the yeast to flocculate as much as is possible .and I dump the first half pint of heavy yeast that settles in the tap .

This allows the filter a good chance of filtering the whole 40 litres batch

I do have two filters just in case it cannot handle the last ten litres but have only ever had to change the filter twice .

It should handle 23 litres fine but dont expect to filter a beer with high levels of yeast in suspension with the gravity method

It should take about a litre a minute to filter a 23 litre batch

Pumpy

Can you explain the fitting used to connect the hose from the fermenter to the john guest hose.

Looking to do similar

Also whats the standard way to clean one of these filters??

Cheers

 

[Pumpy]

Can you explain the fitting used to connect the hose from the fermenter to the john guest hose.

Looking to do similar

Also whats the standard way to clean one of these filters??

Cheers

Scotsman ,

The fitting used to connect the hose from the fermenter to the john guest hose is just a piece of silicone hose attached to the fermenter tap with a pipe clip then a JG 8mm fitting shoved into the other end ,with a pipe clip,thus JG fitting allows you to connect the standard keg line too your filter .( I think my JG fittings into the filter are 3/8" so as you see I have to have a male converter to push into the JG to convert to a female 8mm)
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1118

Cleaning the filter

1. Hose off thick yeast
2. dissolve one teaspoon of Homebrand No perfume Napisan in water and soak overnight rinse and repeat
3. Rinse pleated filter
4. dry out in a well ventilated area

pumpy

 

[Thirsty Boy]

If I would press the beer through the filter with CO2, then the beer carbs up and releases the overplus of CO2 in the receiving keg (due to the delta P), a lot of foam would be the result.
Anyway, youd waste a lot of the expensive CO2 gas either.

That makes sense. You can get away with pushing with gas though - just like a CP filler, you don't open the bottom keg completely, you bleed the gas away slowly so that foaming is controlled. You do waste gas though.

Not trying to convince you to change or anything, hell I learned most of what I know about transferring and filtering beer from reading about how you do it and then trying stuff for myself - I'm mostly trying to better understand your reasons for doing things the way you do, in case I decide that I need to change.

Also just making sure people know that you can get away with doing this if you don't have a pump, so they don't either give up or spend cash they don't strictly need to.

Thanks for the information

TB

 

[KHB]

Scotsman ,

The fitting used to connect the hose from the fermenter to the john guest hose is just a piece of silicone hose attached to the fermenter tap with a pipe clip then a JG 8mm fitting shoved into the other end ,with a pipe clip,thus JG fitting allows you to connect the standard keg line too your filter .( I think my JG fittings into the filter are 3/8" so as you see I have to have a male converter to push into the JG to convert to a female 8mm)
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1118

Cleaning the filter

1. Hose off thick yeast
2. dissolve one teaspoon of Homebrand No perfume Napisan in water and soak overnight rinse and repeat
3. Rinse pleated filter
4. dry out in a well ventilated area

pumpy

Cheers

 

[caleb]

One other simpler way to a clear beer is to transfer to a secondary fermenter after primary fermentation is complete, and leave another 1-2 weeks. Bottle from this, then make sure you wait at least 3 months before drinking any. The beer will be pretty clear, with just a thin lick of sediment at the bottom.

Also, certain yeasts are more flocculent and also make a firmer sediment too, so these help avoid a glass of yeast when pouring. S-04 is good, but apparently some like the Wyeast London ESB yeast will drop even better and leave a crystal clear beer.

 

[Zwickel]

That makes sense. You can get away with pushing with gas though - just like a CP filler, you don't open the bottom keg completely, you bleed the gas away slowly so that foaming is controlled. You do waste gas though.

Not trying to convince you to change or anything, hell I learned most of what I know about transferring and filtering beer from reading about how you do it and then trying stuff for myself - I'm mostly trying to better understand your reasons for doing things the way you do, in case I decide that I need to change.

TB thanks for the compliment

just to this point I wanna say a little bit more: "you bleed the gas away slowly so that foaming is controlled. You do waste gas though."

No, I dont bleed the gas away. The trick is, that both kegs are under the same pressure and when the transfer of beer begins, the gas from the receiving keg flows back into the dispensing keg, just as the beer leaves the keg, the gas from the other one comes in, so that in the end the volume just has switched, Beer in the one and gas in the other keg.
There is no foaming and no wasted CO2 at all.

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[KHB]

One other simpler way to a clear beer is to transfer to a secondary fermenter after primary fermentation is complete, and leave another 1-2 weeks. Bottle from this, then make sure you wait at least 3 months before drinking any. The beer will be pretty clear, with just a thin lick of sediment at the bottom.

Also, certain yeasts are more flocculent and also make a firmer sediment too, so these help avoid a glass of yeast when pouring. S-04 is good, but apparently some like the Wyeast London ESB yeast will drop even better and leave a crystal clear beer.

Bugger waiting 3 months

 

[buttersd70]

Bugger waiting 3 months

agree, not to mention, some beers are best fresh....I'd be damned if I'd want to leave a Mild that long.