Centrifugal Wort Filtration For Seperating Solids

[domonsura]

This weeks AHB tip. Put your nuts in the boil to keep from making a mess....... :lol:

Sounds like something a womens rights activist would recommend.....

 

[jayse]

snipped>
Found with first wort hopping that boil overs were more difficult to manage, hops in the wort at the beginning of the boil seemed to increase surface tension in the wort, the bubbles were much larger and would build ip much more quickly.

This is actually the opposite of what most brewing texts have on the matter. Being the consensus is adding hops before the onset of the boiling actually decreases the surface tension and results in less chance of a boil over because the first protein head thrown up is not quit as huge.
Clearly this is not your experience in some aspects but it does seem what is boiling over there is not the same as a huge lot of thick protein foam like it may have been if the hops not been added, ie the fact you say the bubbles are of a much larger nature and not a thick protein head.

Proberly getting off topic here but..



Boozed, broozed & broken boned
Jayse

 

[Screwtop]

This is actually the opposite of what most brewing texts have on the matter. Being the consensus is adding hops before the onset of the boiling actually decreases the surface tension and results in less chance of a boil over because the first protein head thrown up is not quit as huge.
Clearly this is not your experience in some aspects but it does seem what is boiling over there is not the same as a huge lot of thick protein foam like it may have been if the hops not been added, ie the fact you say the bubbles are of a much larger nature and not a thick protein head.

Proberly getting off topic here but..
Boozed, broozed & broken boned
Jayse

Spot on Jayse, not a protien boil over. Large bubbles similar to what you get from water with detergent (have I got it arse about), is that less surface tension, no, I remember the test with floating a needle on water, adding some detergent makes the needle sink, so greater surface tension. The brew I did yesterday was FWH the large bubbles bubbled out over the top but not a protien boil over, no protien or break, couple of quick sprays and it was gone, but I was boiling it pretty hard 33L down to 22L in 90 min.

EDIT: SORRY FOR STRAYING TOTALLY OFF TOPIC

 

[Steve Lacey]

Well, since this thread is meandering all over the place like a drunk on his way home from the pub, I'd just like to say that I was always very sympathetic to pumpy's gravel idea. I am sure I read once that in the old days the ale wives would set up a filter out of straw in the bottom of a barrel.

Also, a few weeks ago we bought one of them there Dyson vacuum cleaners. They really suck.

 

[Jye]

Spot on Jayse, not a protien boil over. Large bubbles similar to what you get from water with detergent (have I got it arse about), is that less surface tension, no, I remember the test with floating a needle on water, adding some detergent makes the needle sink, so greater surface tension. The brew I did yesterday was FWH the large bubbles bubbled out over the top but not a protien boil over, no protien or break, couple of quick sprays and it was gone, but I was boiling it pretty hard 33L down to 22L in 90 min.

Could the reason this is happening as opposed to what the original purpose of FWH was used for is because the hop addition we use for FWH is much larger? Back in the day on a small charge was added to prevent boil overs but now we treat it as another flavour hop addition.

 

[domonsura]

Spot on Jayse, not a protien boil over. Large bubbles similar to what you get from water with detergent (have I got it arse about), is that less surface tension, no, I remember the test with floating a needle on water, adding some detergent makes the needle sink, so greater surface tension. The brew I did yesterday was FWH the large bubbles bubbled out over the top but not a protien boil over, no protien or break, couple of quick sprays and it was gone, but I was boiling it pretty hard 33L down to 22L in 90 min.

EDIT: SORRY FOR STRAYING TOTALLY OFF TOPIC

Soap reduces surface tension, therefore sinking the needle. but you had the right idea. It's easy to get arse about with these things.

 

[Pumpy]

Well, since this thread is meandering all over the place like a drunk on his way home from the pub, I'd just like to say that I was always very sympathetic to pumpy's gravel idea. I am sure I read once that in the old days the ale wives would set up a filter out of straw in the bottom of a barrel.

Also, a few weeks ago we bought one of them there Dyson vacuum cleaners. They really suck.

Onya Steve you return some confidence to me ,that was rapidly erroded when I posted the 'Gravel buster' idea .

Pumpy

 

[domonsura]

Hey Pumpy, remember - if no-one ever tries the different ideas, there'd be no such thing as innovation. I personally thought it was a good example of thinking laterally using what was available. That's half of what this hobby is about to some of us.

 

[Steve Lacey]

I guess the real point of contention here is that you are looking for something that works better or is easier or cheaper to construct than the current established best practice (a pickup tube and whirlpool). Thinking about Pumpy's gravel idea combined with the siphon-from-the top centrifuge idea, what about some kind of coarse filter material that would semi-float on top of the wort allowing you to siphon clear wort from above it, or perhaps surround the end of the siphon pickup. It would have to be coarse enough to allow good flow, but fine enough to stop break, and I think that the latter requirement is the killer. I also think variations of these ideas have also been done haven't they ... hop back, scrubby around the siphon type ideas. Sometimes that is the problem with lateral thinking ... you end up back where you started.

 

[crozdog]

onya pumpy for thinking outside the square. :super:

I've previously done a bit of research into making cyclones for removing dust particles from the shed while woodworking. I found this link which has excellent info & a downloadable spreadsheet plan. you may be able to adapt it.

Some technical info on cyclone theory can be found here ( start studying computational fluid dynamics :blink:

I found this link shich suggests that it may not work for yeast may not work:

According to CFD simulations, a 10 mm Bradley hydrocyclone can separate mammalian cells with high efficiencies. However, yeast and bacteria are not supposed to be efficiently separated by Bradley hydrocyclones, even for cyclone diameters down to 10 mm​

i also found this link which indicates that it works, but works beter when perlite is added



I think the big issue is the pump as you mention. Cyclones require a fairly high velocity to operate. i don't think the march 809 will operate at the required fluid speed.

edit: added 4th link

 

[jendres]

Pumpy,

That multicyclone filter says here that it requires a minimum 50Lpm and the Marsh pump is listed on the G&G site as 7.2 gpm (27Lpm) at 0m head. It seems to get better performance at higher flow rates, but it is a fairly flat graph.

I like the idea though!

Jeff

 

[Darren]

Pumpy,

If I recall correctly, no-one dissed your gravel idea for its theoretical methodology. It was simply because you were suggesting that you were going to collect the gravel from the side of a highway 8)

I think it was suggested that marbles or SS ball-bearings would be more appropriate.

FWIW, centrifugation only speeds-up what would happen naturally. Whirlpool, leave for a couple of hours then drain seems a better option for me.

What is the problem with a little break material any way?

cheers

Darren

 

[crozdog]

Pumpy,

I found the solution for you! :beer:

Introducing the Brew 3000.

You can process up to 900 hectolitres per hour and remove suspended solids from 0.5 to 500 m!! The BREW 3000 can be used for Pre-clarification; Green beer separation and Hot wort separation.

More info here :icon_cheers:

 

[jayse]

snipped>
.... is that you are looking for something that works better or is easier or cheaper to construct than the current established best practice (a pickup tube and whirlpool).

Not having a go at anyone here (just having a couple beers and feel like poking fun )but when I have read some of the ideas over the last year or so here I really wonder if that is really the intention. I say that because although some of these ideas are reasonbly sound the cheapest, easiest most practical ways are the standard ones.

Not so much in this case because its not such a bad idea worth at least talking about (actually doing it on the other hand to me is, well...) but I get the impression some people should stop listening to the voices in their head and just do what everyone else does.

Don't mean to be a downer I'am just having a bit of fun with ya all.


Alcohol fueled brewtality
Jayse

 

[BrissyBrew]

Pumpy,

I found the solution for you! :beer:

Introducing the Brew 3000. View attachment 15545

You can process up to 900 hectolitres per hour and remove suspended solids from 0.5 to 500 m!! The BREW 3000 can be used for Pre-clarification; Green beer separation and Hot wort separation.

More info here :icon_cheers:

oh baby a serious piece of equipment, just need to find the 90KW spare power point at home to plug it in. Seriously a scaled down version would be nice, but even then it would still be a serious piece of equipment.

 

[Pumpy]

Thanks everyone who gives me some encouragement to persue the idea and those who may jest but have a bit of fun .

I will give it a try and if it dont work I will have to stick it on my pool

Pumpy

( ideas in action to drag the craft brewing kicking and screaming from the Middle ages )

 

[Brewmeister70]

What about getting one of those s/steel aerator things (basically a sanitizable propeller) from a wine supply shop and fitting to your drill after adding a layer of CO2 to cover the surface to keep it from oxidizing? You could draw the wort off a side outlet like a ball valve and all the crap would gather in the center.

Yes, I've had a beer this evenning (openned up the realm of possibilities!) :icon_cheers:

 

[Screwtop]

Thanks everyone who gives me some encouragement to persue the idea and those who may jest but have a bit of fun .

I will give it a try and if it dont work I will have to stick it on my pool

Pumpy

( ideas in action to drag the craft brewing kicking and screaming from the Middle ages )

Go Pump man :icon_cheers:

 

[///]

Coopers have a humm dinger of one for post <edit>fermentation and cellaring (not filtration). Dunno why they bother with such powdery yeast in bottle and keg :blink:

Maybe check out the Krones (make Steiniker) or Huppmann sites for pure bling exhilaration.

Scotty

 

[Trev]

Also, a few weeks ago we bought one of them there Dyson vacuum cleaners. They really suck.

Am I the only one who found this funny

Trev