Calcium Sulphate 101

[mje1980]

1/2g per litre sounds like a lot to me mje.

Everyone's water is different but with Melbourne (soft) water, I'm generally adding 4g total calcium salts to mash and 4g total to boil. That's for generally 22 L final vol, starting with around 32 L in the kettle.

Too much can be worse than none in my experience.

Ok, cool. I add 8g total to my mash for a single batch (20 litres), and our water is soft, so I might try an even smaller amount and see what happens. I really should get a ph meter i suppose, or at least the strips.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

For the mild I make it uses 1/2 tsp (2.5ml) of Gypsum per 23L when using soft water , not sure of the weight of gypsum per tsp ?
Nev

 

[ashley_leask]

The sheet above goes on mineral ranges given by Palmer. What I've managed to work out is this: the Calcium level and mash pH is the critical point. There's another load of stuff about the ratio of chloride to sulphate which some people claim has an effect of enhancing bitterness/hops and malt, respectively. Other brewers of note (with letters after their name) have called this into question.

I brewed 5 or 6 pilsners in quick succession last year trying different salt addition mixes. I didn't notice much change in the bitterness profile but I do believe now that having that balance strongly on the sulphate side suppresses the malt character significantly. I was much happier with the beers that were balanced or favored the chloride over sulphates. The bitterness is still where it should be depending on the recipe, but allows the malt character to come through as well.

 

[ashley_leask]

China / Nev / Yob, are you talking about a room temp or mash temp measurement of 5.2? I've never tried below a 5.4 room temp pH, interested in your experiences if you're going that much lower.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

China / Nev / Yob, are you talking about a room temp or mash temp measurement of 5.2? I've never tried below a 5.4 room temp pH, interested in your experiences if you're going that much lower.

pH changes with temp so a mash measured at 65c and room temp will be different, to be accurate it needs to be done at mash temp.
There is a deviation on reading of about 0.2-0.3pH I THINK, but dont quote me on that as its not a fixed figure.
My pH meter has a temp compensation setting so I dont have to put that factor in.
Nev

 

[ashley_leask]

pH changes with temp so a mash measured at 65c and room temp will be different, to be accurate it needs to be done at mash temp.
There is a deviation on reading of about 0.2-0.3pH I THINK, but dont quote me on that as its not a fixed figure.
My pH meter has a temp compensation setting so I dont have to put that factor in.
Nev

Thanks, I've seen anywhere from .2 to .35 as the correction figure. I've always taken a small sample, cooled and measured. I use 5.4 as a target. Sounds I'm probably close to what you guys are doing.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

You can work it out with your own meter, do a reading at room and one at mash temps and note the difference.
Nev

 

[Yob]

why bother with the room temp? it's the mash temp thats important yeah?... unless Im missing something.... and often am

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Probes (cheaper) last longer at cooler temps.
Nev

 

[Lurks]

I brewed 5 or 6 pilsners in quick succession last year trying different salt addition mixes. I didn't notice much change in the bitterness profile but I do believe now that having that balance strongly on the sulphate side suppresses the malt character significantly. I was much happier with the beers that were balanced or favored the chloride over sulphates. The bitterness is still where it should be depending on the recipe, but allows the malt character to come through as well.

This is good to hear, thanks. I haven't had the chance to do a series of experiments on the same beer, nor will I likely ever. I've been shooting for balanced, because I do like my malt and getting bitterness hasn't seemed hard as you say.

I think my next beer (California Common 24L batch with with Melbourne water) will be 4g epsom salt, 6g calcium chloride, 3g calcium sulphate. It'll still need 3ml of phosphoric acid in the mash, or so.

Mat.

 

[Lurks]

China / Nev / Yob, are you talking about a room temp or mash temp measurement of 5.2? I've never tried below a 5.4 room temp pH, interested in your experiences if you're going that much lower.

My understanding is that the pH is the pH, but your meter is thrown out by temperature right? The temp compensation on leccy pH meters really isn't up for getting something like 60C and what Nev said about making your probe tip last longer sounds wise too. It's trivial to cool down a very small sample to room temp right? Also should be sampled at 15m into the mash.

I have to say, I had only come into the whole 5.2 thing recently, I'd been shooting for 5.4-5.6. 5.2 just isn't doable without acid with my water. I'm hoping this and other brew improvements might finally combat the persistent chill haze I've been having (which I never had with BIAB!) Something to try out tomorrow if my G&G order shows up... <rubs hands with glee>

Mat.

 

[manticle]

No -actual pH changes with temperature

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

That is my understanding too, I will see if I can find a reference to it.
Nev

 

[Lurks]

Hmm, looks like that is the case too. Learn something new every day.

Well that's a spanner in the works. So the target pH is the mash at mash temperature? I'm guessing someone has discussed this at length somewhere.

Mat.

 

[Aydos]

Does anyone know the water composition for Brisbane? I would be interested in playing with salts.

 

[felten]

A.J deLange gives a good summary of mash pH and temperature here.

 

[mje1980]

What about the stuff you can buy that adjusts your mash to 5.2??. Any good?, would make things easier and more consistent

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

What about the stuff you can buy that adjusts your mash to 5.2??. Any good?, would make things easier and more consistent

Fails to do much in Perth water from what I hear.
Nev

 

[manticle]

Seems to good to be true - that you could just chuck a teaspoon in any old water with any old grains and somehow come up with the magic number. Also I don't know what's in it (some salts and phosphates I believe but what and how much?).

I know some brewers who do use it and say it works well for soft Melbourne water.

 

[mje1980]

Hmm, I have soft water too. Might give it a go. Bit off topic, but what's a good ph meter to get??