Butterscotch Flavour In Fermenting Kolsch

[agraham]

Fellow Brewers,

I put down an all grain kolsch last week, and noticed a pronounced butterscotch smell/taste. I am using wyeast 1007, and trying to ferment it as cold as possible (I bought one of those 100 can coolers from kmart) around 13-14 degrees.

Is it possible that the lower fermentation temp is causing the problem/diacetyl?

I was wanting to keep the temp as low as possible to make a psuedo style lager.

I am going to raise the temp a bit, i.e not put ice brick's in the cooler, and see if the flavour disappates.

Any input greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Andrew

 

[warrenlw63]

Andrew.

A diacetyl rest and some cold conditioning should see off the diacetyl. I'm almost certain it won't remain.

What was your pitching temp?

Warren -

 

[agraham]

Warren,

Pithing temp was around 20 deg, but i got it down fast with the cooler and ice blocks.

I wont be happy if all my hard work was in vain.

Cheers,

Andrew

 

[bradmcm]

Yes, that is diacetyl.
Because of the cold temperatures the yeast reabsorbs much more slowly the diacetyl it produced earlier on in the fermentation. It will reabsorb it though - either through longer time on the yeast at cold temperatures, or shorter time on the yeast at warmer temperatures.

As for calling it a pseudolager - well, it isn't. It's cold enough to be called a lager, and it really won't be koelsch-like. Still it should be a great beer - if the yeast keeps working.

 

[Steve]

Andrew
After about 7-10 days primary fermentation bring it out of the cooler bag up to room temp for 48 hrs (diacetyl rest), rack to secondary and stick in fridge to cold condition at about 2-3 degrees. This should clear up the butterscotch. It will also clear up more when aged for a few months in the bottle.
Cheers
Steve

 

[agraham]

I had a smell this morning an it smells like it is infected...

I am tempted to turf it, but will more than likely let it finish fermenting and see if it improves at all.

Never had an infection before..so a little annoyed.

 

[bradmcm]

Some bacterial infections will give you diacetyl.
So you might be in trouble.
Best to leave it until it is finishing fermenting, then check again like you said.
You could pour off a glass, cover it in cling wrap and leave it somewhere warm, this will accelerate any infection and you will able to tell sooner.

 

[agraham]

I had a taste and it didnt taste much like a beer i would appreciate.

Time will tell.

 

[warrenlw63]

Don't get too worried ATM.

Let it ferment out, reach termintal gravity and cold condition it for about 4 weeks.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Far too early to be judgemental.

Edit: speileringh.

Warren -

 

[agraham]

Thanks wazza. Good to have the support of other brewers when you have a minor crisis.

 

[Steve]

Was it a new batch of 1007? Did you taste the starter before pitching? As the others said - dont chuck it out yet. Ive bottled a beer that had thick white film on top of wort in the fermenter. Turned out fine. Let it do its thing, primary and secondary and then give it another taste test in a couple of weeks.
Cheers
Steve

 

[agraham]

Steve,

It was a second generation 1007, and the starter smelled ok proir to pitching...having said that most starters dont smell great, very yeasty.

Will keep updating the thread as the fermenting finishes.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Ah, a point where I can finally make a valid and experienced suggestion :lol:

My best beers have always smelled and tasted the worst when green.

My worst beers have always smelled and tasted the best when green.

Don't chuck it man, it'll probably be fine :beer:

PZ.

 

[cubbie]

I don't want to hijack your thread, but it seems like it is a bit of diacetyl and you will have to wait a day or two to see if it disappears.

So while you wait i thought i might post my own infection question.

Just looking at my bottles and noticed that my belgian wit seems to haved formed a skin on the surface (similar to that you may get on a big jar or olives or even in vinegar).

Has anyone seen this before?

I was a bit concerned with my starter, but it seemed to ferment out ok. Just popped a bottled then and it is not overly fizzy (more on the flat side) and did not have an off smell. Had a little taste, but it was hot so i am going to chill it a bit and then have another taste.

 

[agraham]

Update:

I tasted it last nite and it tasted like salty water, with a rather unpleasant smell.

I will rack it to secondary and see if it improves, otherwise have to look forward to the oatmeal stout that is going down either monday night or anzac day.

 

[Steve]

salty water!?! :blink:

Thats a new one. Has the smell changed from butterscotch to something else?

 

[warrenlw63]

Agraham

At that rate you'll taste so much you'll have none left to bottle and miss your beer at it's best.

Just let it do the biz and don't stress... Yeasty/fermentation flavours can be a bit odd at times. Proof of the pudding will be when she's star bright and aged a little.

Be patient. :lol:

Warren -

 

[warrenlw63]

Just looking at my bottles and noticed that my belgian wit seems to haved formed a skin on the surface (similar to that you may get on a big jar or olives or even in vinegar).

[post="121376"][/post]​

Cubby.

More than likely the yeast doing the job of carbonating the bottles. Let it all run it's course and try a bottle and see what it's like.

Warren -

 

[cubbie]

Yeah, well i tried a cold one and there does not seem to be a problem. I have a feeling it has something to do with using malt to prime with rather than sugar. that is just a guess, but i may recall noticing something last time i primed with malt. Anyway, I am happy now, they just need to carb up a bit more.

Agraham,

Salty taste? Interesting that one. I wonder if you have a bit of autolysis. That is the yeast dying and breaking down. Although, this normally takes some time, however if your yeast was not healthy to start with it could be a problem. Just a guess anyway, but racking is a good idea.

here are some notes from how to brew

Under some conditions, the yeast will also consume some of the compounds in the trub. The "fermentation" of these compounds can produce several off-flavors. In addition, the dormant yeast on the bottom of the fermentor begin excreting more amino and fatty acids. Leaving the post-primary beer on the trub and yeast cake for too long (more than about three weeks) will tend to result in soapy flavors becoming evident. Further, after very long times the yeast begin to die and break down - autolysis, which produces yeasty or rubbery/fatty/meaty flavors and aromas. For these reasons, it can be important to get the beer off of the trub and dormant yeast during the conditioning phase.

check out this link

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-1.html

 

[warrenlw63]

Yeah, well i tried a cold one and there does not seem to be a problem. I have a feeling it has something to do with using malt to prime with rather than sugar.

[post="121795"][/post]​

Sorry Cubby, I didn't realised you primed with ME. You have nothing to worry about then.

What you're probably seeing is a small krausen ring that the extract leaves during bottle fermentation. :beerbang:

Bear in mind though that bottles primed with ME take a little longer than sugar primed bottles... Why? Buggered if I know. :lol:

Warren -