Bulk Prime Yeast Addition

[kevo]

Howdy,

bulk priming and bottling an attempt at an alt this weekend.

Adding new yeast for bottle conditioning too....about a third of the original amount pitched for fermentation - is this about right?

I fermented two batches, one with nottingham, one with k-97. Best to use these yeasts, or will safale american ale or saflager be ok? What would people recommend?

cheers

Kev

 

[marlow_coates]

Hi Kevo,

I have not heard of adding extra yeast during bulk priming (except by breweries who want a bottle conditioned beer but don't want to share their specific strain of yeast)

Unless you followed a process (freezing?) to kill all the yeast in the brew once fermented there will still be plenty of the little champs swirling around in there. Most filters won't even strain them all out.

I have read you only need 1/10th the number of yeast cells from fermentation to get bottle fermentation ocurring.

It was my understanding (and I am happy to be corrected) that you wanted as little yeast as was necessary going into the bottles. That way the minimal number of yeast cells will carbonate the bottled beer for you, leaving a minimal amount of yeast sediment once done, meaning a clearer beer and less cake to disturb when pouring. Of course this may mean a longer bottle ferment <_<

Hope this helps,

Marlow

 

[KGB]

Like Marlow said - no need to add more yeast, there will be plenty available in the beer.

 

[kevo]

These beers have been lagering for a month (probably should have mentioned that) and I've found in the past when I haven't added new yeast the beer, which lagered for a similar amount of time, the beer didn't carbonate.

Kev

 

[Steve]

These beers have been lagering for a month (probably should have mentioned that) and I've found in the past when I haven't added new yeast the beer, which lagered for a similar amount of time, the beer didn't carbonate.

Kev

no need for more yeast - must be something wrong with your priming

 

[kevo]

Here's my process I'm intending to use to bulk prime.....basically as in the bulk priming article...

sanitise new fermenter
bring required amount of table sugar to the boil for a few minutes.
pour into sanitised fermenter
rack beer onto this - trying to ensure a good mix
bottle away.

I've used the priming calulator from knights of the mashing fork website - I'm aiming for 2 volumes of co2.

I've only added fresh yeast once before when bulk priming - but that was with a strong dark - 11%, so new yeast was needed. When I've lagered in the past for 4 weeks, I've had ordinary or no carbonation when not adding new yeast.

Any advice?

Kev

 

[buttersd70]

what were the parameters you entered into the calculator, what was the yeast used, the temperature of the bottles during carbonation, and the length of time given before opening?

 

[kevo]

That's my next question which has emerged through the day.

On a priming calculator, is the temp the;
fermentation temp?(as this seesm to impact on residual co2)
bottling temp?
or storage/conditioning temp?

As for the last attempt with a priming calc - no idea - it was ages ago.

Cheers for the help

Kev

 

[matti]

Here's my process I'm intending to use to bulk prime.....basically as in the bulk priming article...

sanitise new fermenter
bring required amount of table sugar to the boil for a few minutes.
pour into sanitised fermenter
rack beer onto this - trying to ensure a good mix
bottle away.

I've used the priming calulator from knights of the mashing fork website - I'm aiming for 2 volumes of co2.

I've only added fresh yeast once before when bulk priming - but that was with a strong dark - 11%, so new yeast was needed. When I've lagered in the past for 4 weeks, I've had ordinary or no carbonation when not adding new yeast.

Any advice?

Kev

I have never had any problems bulk priming any lager.

One issue could be that you crash chill and kill off the yeast.
Yes then you may have to add some yeast for carbonation.
good luck!

 

[barls]

even after 3 months of lagering ive never had a problem with carbonation. the only time ive added yeast was in my cyser after an aging period of 8 months

 

[Bribie G]

I have only had one beer that hasn't carbed up well after two months, even with 180g of priming sucrose (puts on flameproof suit) for a 24L batch.

I was using Polyclar for the first time and was advised not to fine (gelatine) and use Polyclar at the same time because they work on opposite electrical charges to clump the yeast (gelatine) and chillhaze proteins (Polyclar)

So I chilled the beer for a week to get it as cold as possible, Polyclare'd, let it sit for a few days, bottled and primed with sucrose and also gelatine in the bulk prime. It fell bright as a button after only two days but has refused to carb well. It is about as gassy as a Pom bitter and to get a good head you need to pour it hard out of the jug, then it only throws a few bubbles in the glass and is flat tasting.

Priming sugar quantity was right so I reckon I just fined and cleared the shyte out of it.

I'm considering dropping a few grains of some spare Coopers yeast into each PET bottle, reseal, shake and see how it is in a couple of weeks.

 

[kevo]

bump......sorry

On a bulk priming calculator, is the temp the;

fermentation temp?(as this seesm to impact on residual co2)
bottling temp?
or storage/conditioning temp?

Anyone know - the websites are unclear
Cheers for the help

Kev

 

[MHB]

A couple of points that might help:-
Whether you need to add priming yeast after lagering is debatable, personally if it was a long cold lager, it was a very heavy beer and especially if you have used a fining like isinglass in the lager I would.
The yeast I would choose is 514, I know it cops a bagging on AAB but its very temperature tolerant, attenuates pretty well and doesnt throw many flavours, even at unreasonable temperatures, the fact that its cheep as chips doesnt hurt either, so its a great choice for a bottling yeast, even if it wouldnt be your first choice for a brewing yeast.

The bottling yeast you choose determines the temperature you need to store beer at to carbonate it, so if you chose 514 you would store your beer at Ale fermenting temperatures for conditioning (i.e. 16-25C). Conversely if you were conditioning with a lager yeast, you condition at Lager fermenting temperatures (10-15C).

Fining appears to baffle people, PVPP isnt a fining (well its an ionic fining), its a relative of plastic and it chemically binds polyphenols that take part in the formation of haze. There are lots of ways to use PVPP personally I think the best is to pre-coat it onto a filter and run the beer through it, but adding it to the lagering tank works. I would add it late in the lagering probably just a couple of days before decanting. If you add it early it sinks to the bottom and could easily get covered with trub reducing its effectiveness.

The two most commonly talked about finings are Gelatine and Isinglass, I know of no commercial brewery/brewer using Gelatine, they all use Isinglass.
Isinglass as well as helping to remove yeast from suspension will help chill haze to settle, so it works in the lagering tank as well as in fermenter gelatine wont act on chill haze.
Isinglass also contains much higher concentrations of the most active type of collagen so you need a lot less to achieve effective fining, and Isinglass fined beers have better head retaining properties.

I dont know if the Fining and the PVPP would inter-react but to get the best out of both of them I would use them separately.

Rack the beer get it really cold (-1 to 0C) add isinglass add PVPP 2-3 days before racking (cold) allow to warm to ambient add priming sugar solution (and yeast optional) - bottle.

As for the carbonation calculators, I dont use them so I cant give any advice other than conditioning temperature is governed by yeast choice.

Hope that helps
MHB