Built My Herms Vessel

[Screwtop]

Screwy, I use a S/S braided hose, pump has always handled it well when I recirculate, usually the first litre has some grist particles but then it clears up ok.
One of the reasons I swapped over from false bottom to braid was the amount of grist and flour that the FB lets through, haven't had that or any other problems since changing.

Cheers
Andrew

Am in the process, making version 2 of a slotted copper manifold covered with SS braid to stop collapsing. This also means I can direct heat the tun as stirring against the centre of the tun bottom will be possible and stop scorching. I have a 45L urn and was thinking of using coils in the bottom for a HE, should be efficient with only about 15 litres required to cover the coils and heated by a 3.6Kw element. Problem is I don't think the mashmaster relay contacts can take the current. Had a look at the specs, 17(5A)/250VAC which doesn't make much sense, is it 5A, if so the the 1800W element in my HLT is over the limit at 7.2A Might have to use the contacts to energise a relay with contacts capable of coping with the load.

Maybe Frank could enlighten us on this.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Am in the process, making version 2 of a slotted copper manifold covered with SS braid to stop collapsing. This also means I can direct heat the tun as stirring against the centre of the tun bottom will be possible and stop scorching. I have a 45L urn and was thinking of using coils in the bottom for a HE, should be efficient with only about 15 litres required to cover the coils and heated by a 3.6Kw element. Problem is I don't think the mashmaster relay contacts can take the current. Had a look at the specs, 17(5A)/250VAC which doesn't make much sense, is it 5A, if so the the 1800W element in my HLT is over the limit at 7.2A Might have to use the contacts to energise a relay with contacts capable of coping with the load.

Maybe Frank could enlighten us on this.

That sounds like a good way of keeping the braided hose on the bottom of the tun Screwy.
The Dixcell controller manages my 2200 watt element without the need for a relay, but I am pretty sure 3.6 would kill it. The 2200 watt element is more than enough for the herms I built with only 10lt water to heat.

Let me know how the manifold goes, I wouldn't mind doing the same if it's successful, Have you thought about cleaning? Would bits of grain be likely to get trapped between the braid and copper makng cleaning a problem?

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Doogiechap]

G'day Screwy,
Definately get an external relay to switch your element. The Mashmaster will cope for a while but the relay will not appreciate that size load in the long term.
I wish I could remember my trade school specifics but I believe the ratings are 17amps peak and (5 amps typical). The peak load when switching a 3600 watt element will be much higher than 17 amps . I've got a 35 amp relay looking after my 3000W HLT element (driven by a Mashmaster Controler).
Cheers
Doug

Am in the process, making version 2 of a slotted copper manifold covered with SS braid to stop collapsing. This also means I can direct heat the tun as stirring against the centre of the tun bottom will be possible and stop scorching. I have a 45L urn and was thinking of using coils in the bottom for a HE, should be efficient with only about 15 litres required to cover the coils and heated by a 3.6Kw element. Problem is I don't think the mashmaster relay contacts can take the current. Had a look at the specs, 17(5A)/250VAC which doesn't make much sense, is it 5A, if so the the 1800W element in my HLT is over the limit at 7.2A Might have to use the contacts to energise a relay with contacts capable of coping with the load.

Maybe Frank could enlighten us on this.

 

[Screwtop]

Andrew, used braid from a 3/4 gas hooky found at the tip shop, am going to test it before soldering, If there are bits inside after use I'll scratch the idea.

Doug, will get myself a relay then, will have a look around at Haymans.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Tested the Herms on the weekend, brewed my Australian Ale.
I'm very impressed with the ability to control and hold the mash temps, mashed in at 67 and held the temp for 60 minutes without dropping a degree, and the whole mash seemed to be evenly heated as well. Adjusted the controller settings up to 76 for the mashout, and 15 minutes later the mash was up to temp.
Didn't see any increase in efficiency so it still remains at 72%, I thought I might see a slight rise but I'm not concerned that I didn't.
The wort was crystal clear when I transferred to the boiler as well.

The big test will be the finished beer, I am expecting the final product to have a fuller mouthfeel given that the temp stayed at 67 and didn't drop to 65 like it normally does, also the fact that the whole mash was evenly heated will affect the end result as well. I may have to mash at a lower temp to keep my beers the same.
Here's a pic of the wort leaving the return manifold after going through the Herms, you can see the probe in the end of the manifold.



Cheers
Andrew

 

[Sammus]

Thats very cool. I think this will be the next upgrade to my brewery. What type of sensor do you use and how do you fix the probe in?

S

 

[AndrewQLD]

Thats very cool. I think this will be the next upgrade to my brewery. What type of sensor do you use and how do you fix the probe in?

S

I used a Dixcell controller and the probe is just the one that came with it, I have no idea what it is called, the probe is inserted into the pipe and the a rubber stopper seals the end.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Sammus]

Hi, what kind of pump do you use?

Do you have the pump running constantly, while the controller just switches the element on and off? Or does the controller switch the pump as well?

S

 

[AndrewQLD]

Hi, what kind of pump do you use?

Do you have the pump running constantly, while the controller just switches the element on and off? Or does the controller switch the pump as well?

S

Hi S,
I use a march pump, as do all real brewers :lol: . The controller switches the element on and off and the pump runs continuously, I have the flow throttled back on the outlet side of the pump to about 2-3 lt p/minute.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[mfdes]

Given the cost of the system and all its associated parts... what is the advantage of a HERMS system?
I remember seeing all the RIMS hype in the mid '90s, which eventually died down.

I can maintain a steady temperature within 1 degree over the course of a mash with just an esky. I get an efficiency of 75% doing a basic batch sparge... a bit better if I fly sparge.

If you look at large commercial brewing setups where every fraction of a percent rise in efficiency or saved work hours translates to thousands of dollars in the course of a year, you'll see they all pretty much use a single infusion in an insulated mash tun. You just can't seem to beat this system in terms of quality and simplicity...

I'm not trying to bag your system, but I also used to get carried away by the tech bug and spend lots of $$$... Nowadays I can't see the justification in spending so much money on added complication, when my simple system allows me to prepare a single infusion wort in one morning and finish by lunchtime... and produce killer beer.

Can someone please enlighten me on the benefits of systems such as RIMS or herms, and how much you paid to build and maintain them? Most importantly, do they produce better beers? Are brewers that use such systems overrepresented as competition winners compared to those using simpler systems?

Cheers,

 

[AndrewQLD]

Given the cost of the system and all its associated parts... what is the advantage of a HERMS system?
I remember seeing all the RIMS hype in the mid '90s, which eventually died down.

Even and accurate temperature through out the mash, ability to raise mash temp without the need for infusions or stick elements. Crystal clear run off at the end of the mash, you don't need to recirculate the wort at the end of the mash.

I can maintain a steady temperature within 1 degree over the course of a mash with just an esky. I get an efficiency of 75% doing a basic batch sparge... a bit better if I fly sparge.

I used an esky for years, they're great, but you will get hot and cold spots in the mash, just try sticking your thermometer next to the plastic wall and then in the middle of the esky and see the difference. Raising efficiency was never a reason for me building my Herms.

If you look at large commercial brewing setups where every fraction of a percent rise in efficiency or saved work hours translates to thousands of dollars in the course of a year, you'll see they all pretty much use a single infusion in an insulated mash tun. You just can't seem to beat this system in terms of quality and simplicity...

I still do single infusion mashes in an insulated mash tun :huh:

I'm not trying to bag your system, but I also used to get carried away by the tech bug and spend lots of $$$... Nowadays I can't see the justification in spending so much money on added complication, when my simple system allows me to prepare a single infusion wort in one morning and finish by lunchtime... and produce killer beer.

No doubt you do, and so do I, my average brew day from mash in to clean up is 3 hours.

Can someone please enlighten me on the benefits of systems such as RIMS or herms, and how much you paid to build and maintain them? Most importantly, do they produce better beers? Are brewers that use such systems overrepresented as competition winners compared to those using simpler systems?

The benefits I have outlined above, as far as cost is concerned I don't care, this is my hobby and I like to fiddle with the bells and whistles. I had everything on hand, but if I was to put a price on it, $9 for the element, $30 for the copper, $15 for the fittings, $20 for the pot, $0 for the satisfaction and joy of building it.
I don't know if it will produce better beers, or even competition winning ones and I can't see that it's relevent. I built my system to make my brew day easier and more enjoyable.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[mfdes]

No doubt you do, and so do I, my average brew day from mash in to clean up is 3 hours.

I guess you have a point. My last double decoction mash was a 9:00 am to 6:00 pm effort...

 

[Tony]

$9 for the element,
$30 for the copper,
$15 for the fittings,
$20 for the pot,

satisfaction and joy of building it.

PRICELESS !


I built my over complicated brewery that actually adds to my brew day due to it taking a bit longer to clean out properly cause i like to build things. It makes me happy and eskies get a but heavy to lift when doing 50 liter batches. but thats another story.


and all the things Andrew pointed out.

cheers

 

[deckedoutdaz]

Andrew,

Just wondering where you picked the element up from, i'm assuming they come as a spare part from a wholesaler..

with plug???

Daz

 

[Screwtop]

First time I bought a $10 lekky jug from K Mart and pulled it apart. Next time THE TIP SHOP $2 special, works fine.

 

[AndrewQLD]

Andrew,

Just wondering where you picked the element up from, i'm assuming they come as a spare part from a wholesaler..

with plug???

Daz

A $10.00 kettle from BigW, It even comes with its own rubber "O" ring that seals perfectly. Belle was the brand name.

Cheers
Andrew

 

[deckedoutdaz]

Thanks Guys...

Isnt it a bloody waste though, recently it was literally cheaper for me to purchase a new lexmark x4700 fax printer scanner for my business than to purchase a black and colour cartriges...i threw away a perfectly good machine.....

Daz

 

[warrenlw63]

it was literally cheaper for me to purchase a new lexmark x4700 fax printer scanner for my business than to purchase a black and colour cartriges...i threw away a perfectly good machine.....

Daz

Lack of "peripheral" vision? B)

Warren -

 

[deckedoutdaz]

Lack of "peripheral" vision? B)

Warren -

Not real sure what your refering to.......

Lack of Froth on my part, i reckon...

 

[Thirsty Boy]

. . . you look at large commercial brewing setups where every fraction of a percent rise in efficiency or saved work hours translates to thousands of dollars in the course of a year, you'll see they all pretty much use a single infusion in an insulated mash tun. You just can't seem to beat this system in terms of quality and simplicity. . .

Well, actually not true. At least not in the case of the largest brewery in Australia in Abbotsford.

It uses a steam jacketed mashtun with constant agitation of the mash, does step mashes on a number of the beers produced and raises every mash to basically a mash out temp before transferring to a lauter tun.

The system is actually so different in the way it is applied, that comparing the "large" commercial breweries to a homebrewing operation is almost pointless. But many, many smaller commercial breweries that are more directly comparable to homebrewing, also employ temperature controlled mash-tuns and step mashing. In fact one of the fairly common paradigms is to mash in the boil kettle for temp control and then to transfer to a separate lauter tun.

They dont use HERMS or RIMS because those things aren't practical on a large scale and besides, you don't need them when you have steam jackets.

The main reason that most smaller commercial breweries use single infusion mashing is simple capitol costs... It might not be the only reason, but its the main one. I seriously doubt if there would be too many breweries who would knock back the option of an ability to step mash if they could get it for free.

I built a HERMS because I wanted to be sure that there would not be a beer that I wasn't capable of making by the best technique possible. Yes, there probably aren't many, if any, beers that you simply cant make by single infusion, but in my opinion, you would be making a compromise to do so, and I want my brewing to be as uncompromising as it can be.

Doesn't stop me being a lousy brewer, its just that I'm an uncompromising lousy brewer.

Thirsty

PS: Nice HERMS Andrew. Glad to hear its doing the job for you.