Buffalo urn stopped working mid brew, help!

[buckerooni]

hey fellas,

3/4 way through my First Blood Red IPA my beloved 40L Buffalo urn stopped working

I've added 2 photos to my gallery, nothing looks burned out or anything. When powered on no light on the switch is emitted and the heating element doesn't heat.

I did notice one of the connectors to the heating element was loose, but after re-attaching (pushing it back on the connector) it still didn't work.

Any ideas how to troubleshoot this one. I have a multimeter but am clueless when it comes to this kinda thing.

I did add those two mods to help the rolling boil, if that's of any benefit.

thanks for any assistance.

 

[roller997]

That looks like the contacts on the dry boil cut off are charred. That is not normal and it might be that the dry boil thermostat got too hot - It lets the current through to the element when it has a temperature below its rated threshold.
If you use your Ohm setting on the multimeter accross the dry boil thermostat with the wires disconnected (the one with what looked like charred cable ends) you should get close to 0 Ohm reading (fully closed while at room temperature letting current through same look as if you hold your two testing ends together). If that doesn't budge then it is likely to be fried.

Seeing the charring on the cables, I would go to an appliance repair place to get them to look at it. Failing that at least get a qualified electrician to look at it.

Cheers

Roller

 

[panspermian]

Multimeter should have a continuity setting. This would tell you if there is a break in the circuit. Most meters can be set to beep if the circuit is complete. This can be used to diagnose whether the break in the circuit is in the element or in the wires.
I have no idea with your particular urn but I hope this helps in diagnosing where the problem lies.

 

[anthonyUK]

That thermal swich is fubar'd and looking at the state of those spade connectors has been bad for a while.

It should look like this

 

[Pogierob]

Those spade connectors definately look like they have had a work out in a bad way. If you are not confident with a multimeter then I probably wouldn't continue to fault find by yourself.

If you are however, test for voltage on both sides of the cut off switch (AC and put your probe on earth and then active (assuming the cut off is breaking active).

If you have voltage on both sides then you have fried the element.

what "mods" did you do to the urn to increase the rolling boil?

 

[buckerooni]

That looks like the contacts on the dry boil cut off are charred. That is not normal and it might be that the dry boil thermostat got too hot - It lets the current through to the element when it has a temperature below its rated threshold.
If you use your Ohm setting on the multimeter accross the dry boil thermostat with the wires disconnected (the one with what looked like charred cable ends) you should get close to 0 Ohm reading (fully closed while at room temperature letting current through same look as if you hold your two testing ends together). If that doesn't budge then it is likely to be fried.

Seeing the charring on the cables, I would go to an appliance repair place to get them to look at it. Failing that at least get a qualified electrician to look at it.

Cheers

Roller

thanks roller. removed the contacts of each side of the thermal switch. my multimeter would only show 1 if at 20K ohms, (not 2000 or 200 - it's this one http://www.jaycar.com.au/Test-%26-Measurement/Multimeters/Digital/Low-Cost-Digital-Multimeter-(DMM)/p/QM1500 ) .

At the 20K ohm setting it went from 1 and dropped to 0 after a few seconds.

Does this mean the thermal switch is OK?

This is the one I've got in there: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/350769820823?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&clk_rvr_id=833081913237&rmvSB=true

with this thermal fuse: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/300604641346?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649&clk_rvr_id=833068850894&rmvSB=true

 

[roller997]

I am not sure but it doesn't sound right if you are measuring such high resistance but then I don't have much experience on exactly how these dry boil sensors work.
The picture makes the wires look charred so you really need to get this looked at by someone who is qualified. Saving a few $$$'s at the risk of electrocuting yourself is not worth it.
I am also curious as to what modifications you might have made as that might have contributed to the charring of the wires.

I know that in the past some folks have removed the dry boil switch (thermostat is usually a seperate bi-metal sensor which is visible in one of your picture in a metal sleeve closer to the walls of the urn) to keep the boil rolling better without the dry boil switch kicking in. Others have moved the bi-metal sensor further from the surface or insulated it to reduce the temperature being sensed.

 

[Bribie G]

Provided you never switch urn on when empty , from the point of view of home brewers, the boil dry protection isn't really needed. The reason urns have the feature is because they normally operate unattended and you wouldn't want to burn down the church hall and incinerate the elderly bingo ladies.
The minority of urns that end up in home breweries operate under close supervision when running.

 

[Pogierob]

Provided you never switch urn on when empty , from the point of view of home brewers, the boil dry protection isn't really needed. The reason urns have the feature is because they normally operate unattended and you wouldn't want to burn down the church hall and incinerate the elderly bingo ladies.
The minority of urns that end up in home breweries operate under close supervision when running.

different gravity means different boil point. I burnt out a crown urn because of the bypass I did..

 

[Bribie G]

Worked fine with my Birko for a couple of years till it got turned into a HLT.

 

[Pogierob]

Mods = increased risk, it's up to the individual to calculate them, and control them.

 

[Bribie G]

Agreed. In my case I simply keep the dial on full and never touch it so my Birko and Crown were / are always on full bore that give a classic rolling boil.
Buffalo might be different and who knows what with the Chinese urns that pop up on Ebay.

 

[Pogierob]

I also have an over side element as a back up. Just in case my urn goes south. I can still finish the brew.

 

[Bribie G]

Rob and I are reading from the same page, (ed: especially if using urn for full volume BIAB) an over the side is brilliant to ramp up the strike water, ramp quickly to mashout (or do more complex step mashes), raise the wort to a boil quickly and as he says it's a good backup. My Crown has cut out in the past when using too much of a hop pellet load (Saaz is a killer) or a thick wheat mash that tricks the thermostat into thinking the urn is about to go up in flames.

 

[buckerooni]

appreciate the feedback guys.

got a sparky mate around the corner to have a look before messing with it, but I suspect the thermal switch is rooted.

Bypassing the thermal switch might be the approach with some additional heat shielding of the wires (esp. the black wrap) could be the go, but I'll wait for the pro advice frst!

Luckily I've got 3 kegs tapped to see me through the brewing drought period!

 

[buckerooni]

will look into the over-the-side element, was thinking about this a while ago (to speed up the heating in general) and now I have another reason

 

[buckerooni]

time to upgrade the multimeter, sparky mate sorted it in 2 mins.

turns out it's the thermal fuse. of course I can't find that pesky bag with 3 more fuses in it so off to Jaycar I go.