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Brown malt always gives harsh flavour

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TimT

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This is an interesting one for me. I've lately noticed similar issues with my dark beers - a very harsh taste in the final brew. After discussing the issue thoroughly with the Higher Minds (tm) on this site I found it probably came down to the acidity of the brew. Firstly, the brew will acidify during the mash and the boil - then it will acidify further during fermentation. (Oh - and I tend not to brew with hops these days, and hops can be a very effective masking ingredient when it comes to harsh flavours). So. This can be dealt with most obviously by tinkering with the water chemistry - brewing salts, perhaps.

Anyway, I've been experimenting with a different solution - Mark's going to think this is insane - adding egg white during the last part of the mash.

The idea is this: egg white is a traditional brewing ingredient, used to clarify wines. (Interestingly, it seems there was an old tradition of brewing English wheat beers with grouts/biscuits made out of egg white and flour. Perhaps there are similar traditions in other parts of the world.) Egg white has interesting properties; it's alkaline (though grows more acidic as it gets older), and it will tend to remove bitterness from whatever it's added to. So my idea is to add egg whites during the last part of the mash, let it leech up some of the bitterness and hopefully push the pH up a little bit - and then scoop the egg white out and proceed with the boil. And perhaps it will contribute some proteins for the yeast.

I did this a couple of weeks ago with an amber ale. The ale fermented efficiently and well and came out of the fermenter tasting rather bready with a gravity of around 1.002. Success for the egg white? Er, well, I dunno; I also used some 'super high gravity yeast' and maybe some of my other adjuncts altered the flavour of the brew too. However, I plan on doing some more brews using egg white soon!
 

antiphile

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Hi Tim.

The Dutch make Advocaat with egg yolk. Maybe the Aussie beer version with egg white could be called Beervocaat? :)
 

TimT

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Egg yolk is a different thing altogether (though still a great ingredient). Great in butter beer!
 

MHB

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Anyway, I've been experimenting with a different solution - Mark's going to think this is insane - adding egg white during the last part of the mash.
No Mark thinks you're insane :) subtly different.
I've given up even trying to understand what you are even trying to achieve, but in this case, I cant see any point in adding egg white to the mash.
It will just coagulate (cook) and wont even get into the kettle, let alone the beer. I suppose it is theoretically possible that it is trapping some polyphenols, tho I have my doubts.

As to the virtues of making a white ale by adding flour to the kettle - that is well enough understood, the notion of using flour made from "slack malt" is interesting and could have some up-sides, would need to do some experimenting .

Mind you, the recipes (well as close as they get) are going to make a very lactic beer - pushing your pH way the hell down and everything you are saying about pH of your beer is the exact opposite of what the brews referenced will make..... surprise surprise. The egg additions appear to be to the ferment, again the opposite of what your doing.

M
 

TimT

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I'm not sure exactly what egg white does when it goes into hot water/hot wort - so I'm definitely still at the early experimental stages with this one. My hope is that it will either draw some of the acid away from the wort or dilute the acidity somewhat.

Though in regards to the English white ale styles, why do you think it would be lactic/sour? Because the fermentation is supposedly kicked off by the egg white/biscuit? My interpretation of those recipes was that fermentation would begin by a wild yeast on the flour - I'm not sure if egg whites have bacteria in them at all?! It would seem to be in the interests of chickens to keep their eggs free from contamination.
 

black_labb

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I've found a touch of astringency with brown or amber malt when using them in bitters which smoothes out over a bit of time, though with the right amount it gives them a nice dry finish.

I find that in beers with a fair bit of crystals, especially dark crystals work really well with brown or amber malts and they are drinkable immediately. Add some extra darker crystal malt would be my recommendation
 

MHB

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Well Tim, apart from the specific and direct comparison to Lambic in the article...
There are several other processes mentioned where the presence of Lacto becomes inevitable, as well as more than one reference/suggestion that the beer doesn't store, considering the time and state of the brewing art at the time, we are and can only be looking at a lacto beer.

If you knew anything about brewing you would be aware that any unpasteurised flour will have a lot of lacto, in fact grain dust is a major source of infection in brewing - not a fecking source of yeast!

I really find brewing history interesting, I actually study it as a part of brewing. You should really learn a bit about brewing, and when you read interesting historical snippets, try to read what they say! understand what they were doing and how it affects your beer - rather than pull one part out of the process and in many cases totally reverse its intent or effect.
From my reading of your many posts, Ah FFS I give up - a little less time making up wild baseless assertions and a bit more time learning to brew
 

manticle

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Why on earth would you assume eggs are free from bacteria?
 

TimT

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I know when the chook lays them they come with a cuticle, a wet layer that quickly dries and forms a protective layer on the outer shell that protects them from bacteria. In general it seems in the interests of the chook to have a foetus that doesn't have to compete with microorganisms. I'm sure some gets in but it seems to me that it must have some bacteria-retardant properties - wouldn't be the only natural product that's like that. I was surprised to learn recently that it wasn't until milk was expressed from the udder that it actually picked up bacteria!
 

MHB

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Unless the cow has listeriosis, typhoid fever, tuberculosis, diphtheria, and brucellosis...
All transmittable by "fresh" milk which is why we pasteurise it.
Mark
 

manticle

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TimT said:
I know when the chook lays them they come with a cuticle, a wet layer that quickly dries and forms a protective layer on the outer shell that protects them from bacteria. In general it seems in the interests of the chook to have a foetus that doesn't have to compete with microorganisms. I'm sure some gets in but it seems to me that it must have some bacteria-retardant properties - wouldn't be the only natural product that's like that. I was surprised to learn recently that it wasn't until milk was expressed from the udder that it actually picked up bacteria!
Very wild speculation of a nature upon which I would not hang my hat.

http://www.safeeggs.com/eggs/salmonella-eggs

Obviously this bacteria will not survive the boil but I wouldn't make assumptions based on a chicken's innate motherly love.
 

mje1980

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pat86 said:
Hey Mje can you list which maltster you used?
I have used brown a couple of times in porters thanks to Nick from Barleyman. I believe this was Baird's brown malt and around 20-25% of the grist. I loved it.
A friend made a light coloured Porter with most of the flavour / colour from brown (one of the lighter brown malts - I don't remember which) and it was excellent. There is a real nice flavour that is very different to using smaller amounts of more roasted malts for sure.
Don't know mate but I got it from craft brewer.
 

Markbeer

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I used the Gladfield brown malt at 8% of the grain bill. Not harsh or roasty at all. Will go 15% next time.

I used 3% melanoidin and it overpowers the brown malt it.
 

hwall95

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I've recently done a Porter with 24% brown malt which has turned out really well. Real strong coffeeish-dry choc flavour going on. Thinking about trying some in my milds as being a strong malt I may be able to further decrease the grain bill and keep the flavour
 

mje1980

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Markbeer said:
I used the Gladfield brown malt at 8% of the grain bill. Not harsh or roasty at all. Will go 15% next time.
I used 3% melanoidin and it overpowers the brown malt it.
You post this while there's a bulk buy going on?


Bastard


:)
 

Markbeer

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I honestly think a kilo in 20l would be a good amount. Maybe more.

I can give you some Mark if you like.


mje1980 said:
You post this while there's a bulk buy going on?


Bastard


:)
 

paulyman

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Markbeer said:
I honestly think a kilo in 20l would be a good amount. Maybe more.

I can give you some Mark if you like.
Too late he's already ordered a whole sack!
 

mje1980

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Yeah, can't let a bulk buy go without getting something!. If I start giving it away you'll know I'm not keen on it lol

Plenty more mild,brown and porter coming up
 

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