I seem to remember a 2-part TV program a few years ago about the history of beer in Australia, it was pretty lightweight on the actual brewing, more an OzFest showing old photos of bullockys drinking from bottles etc. However there was one interview about the takeover of Tooths by CUB way back and the first thing they did was to get rid of their house yeast. I wonder if that was the Melbourne 1 yeast, replaced by Fosters strains?
"Bronzed Brews" Home brewing old Australian Beers
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seehuusen
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Hey Peter, im doing the 1920's Resch Extra Stout (with a touch of Brett), this coming week.
I've got an Irish extra stout to brew up tomorrow, so while waiting on mash to finish, I'll try out making inverted sugar for the first time...
Actually, this beer is my swap beer for the qld xmas in July, i believe Bribie will be there, so I'll bring some extra bottles for tasters
I've got an Irish extra stout to brew up tomorrow, so while waiting on mash to finish, I'll try out making inverted sugar for the first time...
Actually, this beer is my swap beer for the qld xmas in July, i believe Bribie will be there, so I'll bring some extra bottles for tasters
Randai
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Hey peter. Just to let you know. I ended up putting the 1917 Resch old in a keg on the weekend. Man this high finishing gravity makes it sweet. But I don't know if its the mixing with the hops or the yeast I've used, but it definitely is putting off some "juiciness". I am not sure if I chalk that up to the late hop additions in the recipe or maybe its a touch infected... since I screwed around a lot with the fermenting beer this time, taking gravity samples.
Funnily enough seehuusen just brewed the 1920 Resch Extra Stout, I moved the grain bill around slightly since I didn't have Marris otter, but did have Ale Malt, so upped that some what. The invert I ended up making became quite dark, so I omitted the brewers caramel for colour this time.
Though I'd be really interested in the Brett in the beer. Let me know how it goes because I was really tempted to do it. But chickened out and am only going to use the WLP002/Wyeast1968.
Also seehuusen when making the invert I used citric acid and found that I put too much in, around 2 teaspoons for 1.35kg sugar (using the unholymess website ratios of water/sugar/acid). I found it definitely did have a bit of citric tang to it.
Last time I made invert for the Resch's Old I found that I put too little acid in and it did partially invert but wasn't super runny like golden syrup.
Funnily enough seehuusen just brewed the 1920 Resch Extra Stout, I moved the grain bill around slightly since I didn't have Marris otter, but did have Ale Malt, so upped that some what. The invert I ended up making became quite dark, so I omitted the brewers caramel for colour this time.
Though I'd be really interested in the Brett in the beer. Let me know how it goes because I was really tempted to do it. But chickened out and am only going to use the WLP002/Wyeast1968.
Also seehuusen when making the invert I used citric acid and found that I put too much in, around 2 teaspoons for 1.35kg sugar (using the unholymess website ratios of water/sugar/acid). I found it definitely did have a bit of citric tang to it.
Last time I made invert for the Resch's Old I found that I put too little acid in and it did partially invert but wasn't super runny like golden syrup.
Jack of all biers
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Thanks all for this thread. Just saw it tonight. I ordered my copy of this book and the Lulu discount is still valid. I await its delivery with anticipation.
Randai
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So I ended up getting the Resch's Extra Stout on tap and going, after a bit of maturing period.
I think I ended up higher in the FG around 1.013 or 1.014 if I recall. Which even though high actually does have a thinner body than I would expect, probably just perception on my part.
But as far as taste, its a realy easy drinking stout, reminds me a bit of some Guinness Foreign Extra stout minus the tang, which I have heard is from Brett that Guinness mix (some stout fermented with brett?) into it. So if thats where the tang comes from, I'd say it'd land quite close. Can't say I taste much of the dry hops.
Also seems to definitely be even recently that Stouts still had the "tang" to it. Because was talking to my father about it recently and he recalled his grandfather being an avid stout drinker, and he sampled some where he said it really did have a huge amount of tang to it, apparently the old blokes loved it.
The Resch's Old turned out fantastic in the end, a bit sweeter, but not over the top once it had matured a tiny bit. Nice honeyish flavour from the East Kent Goldings. Honestly tasted like a bit of speciality malts were in there, even though mostly just base malt + sugar. Though I was thinking that maybe some of the flavour ends up coming from the Brewers Caramel. Sadly finished the keg last night but will look at the other Old recipes in the near future.
I think I ended up higher in the FG around 1.013 or 1.014 if I recall. Which even though high actually does have a thinner body than I would expect, probably just perception on my part.
But as far as taste, its a realy easy drinking stout, reminds me a bit of some Guinness Foreign Extra stout minus the tang, which I have heard is from Brett that Guinness mix (some stout fermented with brett?) into it. So if thats where the tang comes from, I'd say it'd land quite close. Can't say I taste much of the dry hops.
Also seems to definitely be even recently that Stouts still had the "tang" to it. Because was talking to my father about it recently and he recalled his grandfather being an avid stout drinker, and he sampled some where he said it really did have a huge amount of tang to it, apparently the old blokes loved it.
The Resch's Old turned out fantastic in the end, a bit sweeter, but not over the top once it had matured a tiny bit. Nice honeyish flavour from the East Kent Goldings. Honestly tasted like a bit of speciality malts were in there, even though mostly just base malt + sugar. Though I was thinking that maybe some of the flavour ends up coming from the Brewers Caramel. Sadly finished the keg last night but will look at the other Old recipes in the near future.
The 1917 Tooths (Kent Brewery) XXX - page 222 - is about ready for kegging. Had a sneaky thimble full out of the tap of the BrewBucket the other day and the first thing that struck me was that it was very much reminiscent of the beers that were still common in the 1970s when I first hopped over the border and visited Tenterfield / Grafton etc. Light body, lovely bitterness in the finish etc.
One thing that strikes me is that this book yet again explodes myths, namely that modern Australian beers are watery versions of much stronger and heartier brews. I'm surprised to see that beers between 4% and 4.5% ABV were quite commonplace throughout the 20th century and that stronger beers such as VB at 4.9% seem to be a post 1960s trend. There's an amusing brewery memo mentioned in the book where the NSW brewers in the 1940s were whining about Coopers who even then were making inroads into their patch with their ridiculously strong pale ales, and there was a fiendish plan to send someone to the UK with a slab of Coopers and get some English brewery to formulate a similar but better pale ale recipe that they could bring home with them to counter Coopers with, then bar Coopers from their pubs.
Shades of the Pepsi / Coke post mix wars of modern times
Strength aside, it's obvious that "blandification" has been the major trend in the last 30 years.
One thing that strikes me is that this book yet again explodes myths, namely that modern Australian beers are watery versions of much stronger and heartier brews. I'm surprised to see that beers between 4% and 4.5% ABV were quite commonplace throughout the 20th century and that stronger beers such as VB at 4.9% seem to be a post 1960s trend. There's an amusing brewery memo mentioned in the book where the NSW brewers in the 1940s were whining about Coopers who even then were making inroads into their patch with their ridiculously strong pale ales, and there was a fiendish plan to send someone to the UK with a slab of Coopers and get some English brewery to formulate a similar but better pale ale recipe that they could bring home with them to counter Coopers with, then bar Coopers from their pubs.
Shades of the Pepsi / Coke post mix wars of modern times
Strength aside, it's obvious that "blandification" has been the major trend in the last 30 years.
Randai
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@Bribie G Yeah it does seem at least from the couple of beers I've given a go that, in the past, before my time that there really did seem to bit more going on in the megabrews.
I have been seeing that even in my short time, last decade a big shift from "XXXX, Crown, VB" to some more interesting stuff being available.
I have been seeing that even in my short time, last decade a big shift from "XXXX, Crown, VB" to some more interesting stuff being available.
mosto
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Grabbed this book a few weeks ago, mainly for the recipes and intended to skim through the rest. However, I'm really enjoying the whole book. I only get to read a dozen or so pages each night after the kids are in bed, so getting through it slowly. I'm up to the Porters and Stouts section and have just gone past first couple of recipes. Looking forward to people's thoughts as they brew some of them. Between this book, and the BrewDog DIY Dog release, I've got a lot of brewing to do
Jack of all biers
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Peter,Korev said:
Nearly finished your book and it is an insightful and great book. I really appreciate once reading the historical accounts and anecdotes that you included some of the English beers that were commonly imported to Australia at the different periods as it is a great comparison. I too liked the anecdote about Walkerville brewery trying to team up with Tooths or Tooheys and muscle out Coopers (like you said somewhere history keeps repeating). My favourite was your following the English brewer from Cascade to Macclesfield Brewery in SA and the comparison brews by the same guy. Very interesting and a piece of SA brewing history that I'd never heard of (the Old Kent Town brewery is now an apartment complex)
Just a question about your above 1916 Pale Ale that you mentioned a couple of times in this thread. I can't find it in the book? Is it a change on a recipe in one of the tables that shows the differences with the beers over the years and I missed it. Definately no recipe for a 1916 anything in the index of recipes Not a critisim, but just curious to find it
Korev
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Glad that you enjoyed the book. You can find the bonus 1916 Pale ale recipe on my websiteJack of all biers said:
[SIZE=11pt]http://prstemp.wix.com/tritun-books[/SIZE]
For some colour photos and other updates have a look at my FB page
https://www.facebook.com/bronzedbrews/
Cheers
Peter
Korev
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Interesting comment about the Old, I have often tasted crystal malt type flavours in my recreations, when none used! I put this down to the raw sugar having some amount of residual molasses flavour that comes through.Randai said:
As for the stout what did you dry hop with? I have found that say 7g - 14g Cluster or even Cascade in 23l for a few days provides some bite. Alternatively or in addition you could do a small addition say 7g at 10 mins
From all that I have read the tang is from brett, added to the secondary.
Peter
Randai
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Yeah odd that there really is/was some sort of more to it, than just "thinned to heck with sugar".Korev said:
Only a guess, not substantiated by fact, but makes me think that maybe the refining process of sugar wasn't as great as it is now so the raw sugar back then would have had more of that unfermentable sort of flavour to it.
I ended up dry hopping with 34 grams of EKG, it might be there but I am not looking for it.
Heck I could even just dry hop in the keg to give it an extra boost.
Jack of all biers
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Thanks Peter.Korev said:
I can't get over the fact that, despite the load of sugars in the wort I'm getting spectacular tight and persistent heads that follow through to the end of the glass. I remember from the 1970s that NSW beers were typified by big heads, whilst in QLD (who had only lager breweries from the 30s onwards) beer was served with no head and filled up to the top of the glass. At that time.
If a beer was served with a head or "collar" the typical response was "hey miss are you going to put a tie on it as well".
If a beer was served with a head or "collar" the typical response was "hey miss are you going to put a tie on it as well".
Danwood
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Maybe you've already seen this, Fletch...
https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-vault
Scroll down to #16, if not
https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-vault
Scroll down to #16, if not
Korev
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I have asked White Labs whether they could do something for the Australian market with 059. and it seems that their production processes now make providing a smaller batch sizes a problem. The Yeast Vault is only for US members of the customer club, so that does not really help us. So, unfortunately it is not likely that 059 will be in production any time soon.fletcher said:
Cheers
Peter
