Brewing My First Stout.

[Jonny]

Hello,

I'm going to attempt my first brew soon and have decided to make a stout.
I bought some ingredients from grain and grape and just received them in the mail today.
I'm not exactly sure what to do with them though. I have:

1 can of Morgan's dockside stout.
1.5 kg Liquid Dark Malt Extract
1Kg Morgans Master Blend Chocolate Malt
60ml Liquorice Extract.
300 grams Bairds Roast Barley (milled).
DCL Safale yeast US05 11.5g

That's what I have but I'm pretty sure I don't need to use all of it. I bought the yeast because I read that yeast from kits is often old or of poor quality, not sure if it's true but wanted to be on the safe side.

I need to know the process for adding these ingredients and the reccommended quantaties to use. I read on the Morgan's kit can that it doesn't need to be boiled, it only needs hot water. But do I need to boil it to add these other ingredients?

I'm hoping it's a fairly simple process but if I'm getting too ahead of myself for a first brew let me know and I'll just use the Morgan's kit on it's own this time.

 

[MHB]

Wow what a monster for a first beer.
Thats a lot of good ingredients (except the Liquorice which I hate), if you put all of that in a beer its going to be a monster, no problem doing it but it will want to mature in bottle for at least 6 months (perfect for winter drinking), and will be over 6.5% alcohol.

If you want to make a monster
Use the kit and all the malt, steep about 100 g of the roast grain in hot (~80C) water (a coffee plunger is fine), mix it all up and get it brewing (read the can for a general guide)

Remember that all that malt will give you an extended ferment so at least 7-10 days for primary fermentation within the temperature range recommended on the yeast.
If you want to bottle this beer for a long time at a maximum use 1/2 of the bottling sugar that is usually used, (I would use no sugar as there are lots of complex malt sugars that will ferment very slowly and give you enough fizz)

If you want a quicker turn round stout, just use the kit the 1.5 Kg can and about 50g of the roast barley. For a first brew follow the instructions on the can and on the yeast packet and you will be fine.

Although this is a big extract brew, it's not as big as my courage imperial stout recipe, it goes like this: -

Courage IMPERIAL RUSSIAN STOUT
Muntons Export Stout
1 Kg Muntons Dark Malt
1 Kg Muntons Amber Malt
50g Black Patent
10g Goldings and 15g Fuggle (Taste)
Muntons Gold Yeast

So if you have the patience to wait 6 months for the beer hook in.

MHB

PS
Welcome to AHB

 

[Jonny]

Thanks MHB for the welcome and the reply.

I was planning on waiting at least a few months for the the beer to mature and the weather to cool down, that's why I chose a stout.
6 months sounds like a long time but I think I'll give it a go. I just want to clarify a few things.

When you said to use all the malt do you mean 1.5 kg Liquid Dark Malt Extract +1Kg Morgans Master Blend Chocolate Malt? So I mix both of those in with the kit and 100g roast barley in hot water (I don't have a coffee plunger so I'll use a pot). Then I put that in the fermenter and top it up with cold water to 23 litres and add the made up yeast. Leave it to ferment for 7-10 days, then bottle with no sugar and leave it for around 6 months.

Sorry, I realise I just repeated a lot of what you said but I want to be sure I do this right. Also I'd like to add some of the Liquorice Extract, probably 10ml, would I just put that in the hot water with the kit? And when I mix it do I just use a big spoon or a whisk or something like that?

By the way, that Imperial stout sounds great, I might give that a go one day too.

 

[MHB]

Sounds like you have the idea - except for that Liquorice.

Liquorice used to be used as a head improver in stout, with that much malt you will have to hit it with a stick to kill the head.

I can taste Liquorice as a discrete component in stouts and its always nice "stout shame about the liquorice"; unless you happen to love the stuff dont use it - but then I have one customer who puts salt and pepper in his stout - each to his own.

MHB

 

[Jonny]

Alright, you've convinced me to leave the liquorice out.
I didn't realise how much of a monster this was going to be, thar's a good thing though.
If it's going to have a big, lasting head and plenty of flavour then I don't need the liquorice extract.

Liquorice is one thing though, salt and pepper? :wacko:
Cheers for the advice. I'm getting excited about this already.

 

[simpletotoro]

hi...nice looking first brew ...won't add much except to stress the importantance of this statement from MHB

Remember that all that malt will give you an extended ferment so at least 7-10 days for primary fermentation within the temperature range recommended on the yeast.

with that yeast i would ferment her out at around 18/c if you can...


your recipe sounds good and i tip me lid to ya for going the whole hog first time up ....maybe add some fuggles @ 10 - 15 mins for flavour up to you...it'll still be fine without it though ...below is a recipe for a stout that isn't such a monster ...but quite nice in its own right ...go with yours this time out and if you want something that'll be ready a little sooner maybe give her a burl ...

ingredients:
1.7 kg stout kit
1.5 kg light dried malt
25 g fuggles @ 15 mins
10 g willamette @ 2-3 mins
specialty grains (steeped 30 mins @ 80/c)
150 g choc
150 g roast barley

yeast safale _05 or safale -04 either work ok for this type of beer

also i use this chart to bulk prime from ( grumpys gear not mine ) can't comment on yours though haven't made a stout that big before ...but the chart will come in handy perhaps as a reference anyway...

link to grumpys
http://www.grumpys.com.au/m1.php3?manualid=13

Final Gravity Grams (for 23 litres)
1006-1008 180
1008-1010 160
1010-1014 140
1014-1018 120
1019-1025 100

also any questions you have just ask ...this is an excellent site and the info people give is invaluable to making good beer..
good luck simpletotoro

 

[Jonny]

Hi simpletotoro.

I'll try to keep it fermenting as close to 18c as possible. I don't have a special fridge or anything to keep it exactly at that temperature. I'll have it in the coolest, air conditioned room of my house so I was estimating it being at around 18-20c. Temp control is something I'd like to get one day, hopefully I'll manage without it this time.

I do have a question about the hops as I really know nothing about that process. When you say to put 25 g fuggles @ 15 mins and 10 g willamette @ 2-3 mins, what does that mean? Is it possible to add hops without boiling because I was pretty much just going to put all of this in hot water and mix it. I can't really see how any times are involved.

 

[rich_lamb]

Hi Jonny,
I also must congratulate you on going for something special on your first brew. Here's my comments for what they're worth:

- you're right about buying a quality yeast to replace the kit one. That yeast will work fine, and I think somebody suggested the 04 is also good for stouts (being english and a tad fruitier), but yours will be great. Don't sweat the temperature control! If it goes up to even 24 degrees you won't wreck the beer. In fact, you might get some nice fruit out of that yeast if it ferments a bit warmer.
For a first brew, just try and keep the temp steady and reasonably cool, but don't panic or anything

- personally, I'd use a dash of the liquorice. I quite like this in stouts - you won't notice it much anyway, but as the others said, it's a matter of taste. It's your beer, so go with your instincts.

- the amount of malt you have is (as you suggested) a bit over the top. To make a "normal" size beer with no problems with and be able to enjoy soonish, I'd recommend using the kit plus ONE of the extra cans of malt. Choose whichever - that "chocolate" malt looks interesting, a blend of chocolate and munich malts which would make a very funky stout. The dark malt would make a more starightforward and slightly stronger beer )as there's more of it.

- go easy with the roast barley. A little of this goes a long way and if you use too much your stout will have an astringent burnt flavour. Great to give it a try though. As suggested, you could just simmer 100-150g of this in 1L in a pot for 10-20 minutes and add this to the fermentor

- adding hops does require boiling. The suggestion was a simple way to get more hop flavour or aroma to balance out your malt a bit. You don't have to boil the whole lot either, you can boil them with the specialty grains (roast barley in your case) or even by themselves. Purely optional though - you will have hops added already in your kit. It's just another thing you can play with like the malts, and liquorice, and yeast, and so on, and so on. All good fun with endless possibilities.

- as you suggested, you can just mix all this in hot water and thrash it up with a spoon. Mix in enough cold water to get the temp to about 20 when you pitch the yeast though...

enjoy yourself.
Merry xmas.

 

[Jonny]

Merry xmas bitter & twisted.

Your comments are worth quite a bit as I'm still making up my mind on exactly what I'm doing.
I'll probably make the 27th my brew day, so I'm open to suggestions until then and whatever I finally put in will probably be partly spontaneous.

I do have a couple of more questions now though. Firstly, if I boil around 100g of the roast barley in a pot of a few litres, can I throw the hops in there (I'd probably just use 1 kind) for the full 10-20 mins? Then just throw that in with the 'hot' kit and malt. Also, do I take the hop pellets back out after boiling them or do they dissolve?

Secondly, if I were to just use one of the malts what would be the estimated time for letting it mature in the bottle and what would the abv be around? And also how much bottling sugar would I use then, half or all? Thanks again for the help everyone.

 

[simpletotoro]

Merry xmas bitter & twisted.

Your comments are worth quite a bit as I'm still making up my mind on exactly what I'm doing.
I'll probably make the 27th my brew day, so I'm open to suggestions until then and whatever I finally put in will probably be partly spontaneous.

I do have a couple of more questions now though. Firstly, if I boil around 100g of the roast barley in a pot of a few litres, can I throw the hops in there (I'd probably just use 1 kind) for the full 10-20 mins? Then just throw that in with the 'hot' kit and malt. Also, do I take the hop pellets back out after boiling them or do they dissolve?

Secondly, if I were to just use one of the malts what would be the estimated time for letting it mature in the bottle and what would the abv be around? And also how much bottling sugar would I use then, half or all? Thanks again for the help everyone.

jonny when using specialty grains you have to steep them first @ 80/c -ish ...for say 1/2 hour then strain the resulting liquid into a pot and you then MUST BOIL the resulting lquid for at least 5 mins 10 or more is better or you will get an infected brew...

the easy way to answer your questions is to use your recipe as an example ok...i'll explain the way i'd go about it (others may disagree...)ok here goes...

lets say you choose this recipe for example...i'll leave out the liquorice as i don't use it ok...
hopefully you'll get the idea ...

1 can of Morgan's dockside stout.
1.5 kg Liquid Dark Malt Extract
1Kg Morgans Master Blend Chocolate Malt
hops
25 g fuggles @ 15 mins
10 g willamette @ 2-3 mins
specialty grains (steeped 30 mins @ 80/c...)
150 grams Bairds Roast Barley (milled).

DCL Safale yeast US05 11.5g


SPECIALTY GRAINS

ok take 150 g Bairds Roast Barley place in a pot ...boil kettle say 2 litres water allow to cool to about 80-85 /c add grain ...take temp ..add hot or cold water so it ends up at around 80/c...put lid on pot....leave steep 1/2 hour ...at the 25 min mark boil kettle again ...strain liquid into another pot ...if you've a stock pot use this ....run say a litre of the recently boiled water from kettle over the grains in your strainer to extract any sugars that are still there.. don't squish the grains or stir them when you do this ...just rinse them ok..discard spent grains

take your liquid you've got and boil for 5-10 mins ...don't put the lid on it and watch for boil overs ok ...open can of 1.5 kg Liquid Dark Malt Extract and add say 300 ml of it to the pot (put glad wrap or something santized over the top of the rest of the can to stop any nasties getting in) ...add more water to your pot if you need to you don't want it to claggy ...bring back to boil and turn heat down a little so you don't scorch the extract ...stiring also helps...you want a nice rolling boil ok ...

HOPS

now add 25 g fuggles for 15 mins ....and then 10 g willamette @ 2-3 mins...(in other words 12 mins after you add the fuggle hops then add the willamette for 2-3 mins ...so a total of 15 mins for the fuggles and 2-3 mins for the willamette ...)
remove pot from heat put on the lid and crash the temp in a bath or body of water ...don't lift the lid up ok ...at the moment what you have inside your pot is hopefully free from nasties due to the boiling process ...

while you pots cooling take these ingredients
1 can of Morgan's dockside stout.
remaining 1.5 kg Liquid Dark Malt Extract
1Kg Morgans Master Blend Chocolate Malt

open them add them to your fermenter...add a little boiling water to thin them out if you wish or instead of crashing the pot in a water bath use that ...mix well add water to top up to 23 litre mark of your fermenter ...

YEAST

a good idea is to collect and sanatise a heap of 2 litre drinking bottles the day before brew day and cool them down in the fridge the night before ...you want to pitch your yeast at around the 18/c mark ...a few degrees here and the won't hurt but he closer to that mark you get it the better ...


before you pitch the yeast stir the absolute crap out of the wort in your fermenter ...you want heaps and heaps of froth and air mixed into it ok ...the way yeast work is this they run on two cycles...

the first is called aerobic digestion...when theres oxygen present they reproduce...this is what you want early on in the fermenting process ...get those yeast numbers high ...

the next is called Anaerobic digestion... this is when they've run out of oxygen and start to go into survival mode... and its when they'll stop reproducing and start to convert your sugars (all those malts etc..) into yummy beer...

the reason you want to ferment your beer (for ale yeast strains ) at around 18-20/c is that yeast is alive and it'll stress out or die when the temp is to high ...when they stress out... they ferment your brew differently and produce nasty fuscels (higher order alcohols ...that will taste like crap and give you a nasty hangover) so the aim is to keep your boys nice and happy ....

ferment it out around the 18/c mark ..when ready bottle (use your hydrometer to make sure)...with this brew as stated by MHB leave to condition for 6 months or so ...drink and enjoy..

thats how i'd do it anyway...oh if you can get a stock pot the bigger the better ...if you don't understand anything about what i wrote just ask...

TRY THIS LINK FOR A LONG WINDED REPLY I 'VE DONE BEFORE ...don't stress or get to confused or try it all at once ...just might be handy to have some of this info around if you need it (my post is #10 )

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...=17640&st=0



cheers simpletotoro

 

[Jonny]

What a great guide simpletotoro!
Thanks for taking the time to write that out for me, it'll help a lot on brew day, which I'm thinking of actually making tomorrow.

I now have a question about using the yeast. On the back of the packet it says to simply sprinkle it over the wort. But I've been reading all this stuff on the net about "proofing" and "starting" and using two packets etc. So what would you guys here recommend on how to use yeast.

 

[rich_lamb]

You can just sprinkle the yeast in and it will work. If you want to keep it simple as it's your first go that's fine.

If you want to go a step further and really give your yeast a good start, sterilise (boil) and cool about a cup of water to say 25 deg. Mix the yeast into the 25 degC water for 30 min before you pitch it to the fermentor. Pretty straightforward and your yeast will be somewhat healthier for it.

(chucking them straight into the wort is like you being thrown out of bed and off to work without waking up and putting your pants on - you could do it, but you wouldn't be happy about it)

 

[Jonny]

What a great analogy Bitter & Twisted
I want to keep my yeast happy so I'll do as you said.

It seems like I'm just about set to give this a go now. I have one last question (for now) though.
I have one of those water filter taps in my kitchen, is it better to use that or just regular tap water? I see that it keeps getting mentioned to boil the water first and then let cool, is that just to distill it or does it do something else. Should I boil the filtered water?

Also, are the extra chemicals in tap water good in beer. Maybe it doesn't make much difference but I can just as easily use either so, which would you say is better?

 

[Jonny]

The wort's done ^_^
I went and bought the hops this morning and I just finished following simpletotoro guide.
It went well, I think. Now I'm waiting for it to cool enough for me to add the yeast.
It's at around 24c, which I'd say is room temperature. So I have a couple of frozen 1.5 litre water bottles up against it and I just put the air-con on.
I'm hoping that in about an hour it'll be cool enough to pitch. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Jonny]

Ok, so every thing's going well. I think I'll be bottling tomorrow and I have a few new questions.
The sg is currently just under 1.020 and has been for the past few days.
It started off at about 1.060 (I say 'about' because I'm no expert at using a hydrometer yet).

Does 1.020 sound right or should I wait a bit longer to see if it goes down further? It will have be exactly 2 weeks tomorrow and according to the stick on thermometer, my beer has been at 22c the whole time. That's the best I could do with the hot weather here.

The samples I have been taking have been pouring very dark with a small head and taste alright, not great but with potential.
They have been flat but I'm assuming the bottles will take care of that. Is it still recommended for me to use no sugar?

Also when I store them to mature does it matter at what temperature? Is it ok for them to get a little warmer because it's going to be difficult to keep around 50 bottles at 18c for 6 months. Thanks again for your help, I wouldn't have been able to brew my first beer like this without AHB.

 

[rich_lamb]

Hi Jonny - not sure if this is too late; I was on holiday...

Your final gravity sounds about right for a kit brew, which always tend to "attenuate" on the low side, ie. don't ferment quite as much. Either way, after 2 weeks with your gravity stable it's not going to change so you're ready to bottle.

It should taste a bit green and flat but you get a rough idea of the beer, particularly colour and balance. It will improve greatly over a few weeks in the bottle - if only because it carbonates! If you added a bit of priming sugar it would be fine and carbonate faster, but as suggested it will probably carbonate anyway. Patience is the most valuable skill in brewing - if it's no good after a few weeks, put it away and wait a few more.

So what are you brewing next?

 

[Jonny]

Hope you had a good holiday B&T.

I bottled the day before yesterday so I'm glad the gravity sounds alright, I figured that after a full 2 weeks it had to be.
It tasted pretty decent considering it was warm and flat. I could taste some promising characteristics so I think it'll be great for winter.

I didn't end up putting any sugar in. I'm not planning on drinking it too soon (maybe just the odd bottle here and there to see how it's progressing), so I can wait for it to carbonate.

I'm not sure what I'm brewing next, maybe an ipa or a weizen.. something different I'll have a read around and see what recipes I can find, any suggestions?

 

[rich_lamb]

Hehe - that's the great thing about brewing; so much variety you can do anything that takes your fancy. Usually my problem is choosing which of several beers I'd like to brew!

For kits, an IPA might be a good choice as you can drink 'em any time and they generally always come out alright. Hey, it's nice to get a couple of brews down but it's even better to make good ones :icon_cheers:
Also, with an IPA you can muck around with a bit of extra crystal malt and maybe some hops - really get some nice beery aromas in your kitchen.

Here's something off the top of my head:
- 1 can of decent quality IPA kit (yeast prompty chucked in bin)
- 1 can of pale malt extract
- 180g of light crystal malt; don't be too fussed on what "light" is
- 25g of any hops you like, say Northern Brewer
- 1 pkt of Safale S-06 yeast

1) Simmer the crystal in 2lt of water on the stove for about 20 min. Chew some crystal while you do this
2) Bring to the boil and add the hops, remove from heat in 5 min and allow to stand a further 2 min. Enjoy hop aroma.
3) Strain this into your fermenter, and rinse it through with another 1-2 lt of hot water (hot tap water would be fine)
4) Top up with tap water to the desired volume - 20lt - aiming for a temperature of about 20 deg
5) Mix the yeast in 250ml of boiled water, cooled to about 25deg, and leave for 30 min
6) Add your malt extract to your fermenter, and thrash it vigorously to dissolve malt and add oxygen
7) Pitch your yeast, seal it up and wait 2-3 weeks.

Easy peasy.

(oh sure, a lot of people are going to complain about using tap water, not doing precise temp control on the stove, etc - but this is 98% likely to work and produce a decent beer with a fraction of the fuss :icon_chickcheers: . Good sanitation applies to everyone in brewing though - clean like a crazy person)

 

[simpletotoro]

(oh sure, a lot of people are going to complain about using tap water, not doing precise temp control on the stove, etc - but this is 98% likely to work and produce a decent beer with a fraction of the fuss :icon_chickcheers: . Good sanitation applies to everyone in brewing though - clean like a crazy person)

yep your right....here goes...i was taught not to simmer specialty grains as you risk extracting tannins from the husks...steeping them at 80-85/c is ample to extract any of the sugars from crystal and the like...strain the grains out then sparge the grains with some recently boiled water say 90/c ...then discard the husks ... boil the resulting liquid for a minimin of 5 mins 10-15 is even better to kill any nasties ...just the same as what i wrote in that other post...

never done an IPA before so cannot advise on a recipe for that one...but have a good one for a pale ale ...comes out sort of like little creatures pale ale...better if you ask me but i'm biased ...for what its worth recipe below...hopefully you should be able to follow the other post i wrote to make it ..if not and you want to try it post me ok...just remember that apart from sanatation ...contolling that fermentation temp to 18-20 is going to give you much better beer ok..

pale ale recipe (23 litres)

1* tin of copper pale ale 1.7kg
1 kg LDM (light dried malt )

specialty grains
200-250 g medium crystal
100-150 g carapils (for head retention)
add both lots of grains together and steep @ 80-85/c for 1/2 hour (say 2 litres water) then sparge as per normal (say 1 litre water ...depends how big is your pot ...by the way how big is your pot?)then discard spent grains and boil for say 10-15 mins before adding hops and malt etc...

hops

flavour hops
8 g cascade @10 mins
8 g amarillo @ 10 mins
8 g willamette @ 10 mins

aroma hops
8 g cascade @1 mins
8 g amarillo @ 1 mins
8 g willamette @ 1 mins

yeast safale-05 (formerly known as us-56..the red safale packet)

ferment@ 18-20/c

so steep grains as normal ...strain then sparge grains ...discard spent grains... boil resulting liquid for say 10 mins ...then add say 300 g LDM (i was taught to do this as better brewers then i ....say it gives better hops extraction...) bring to boil add flavour hops for 10 mins then add aroma hops at 1 min to go ...cover lid ...crash pot or use to dissolve tin of pale ale goo and the rest of the LDM ...add chilled water to 23 litres ...try to have more of the available this time to crash that temp to 18-20/c ...stir the absolute crap out of it to oxygenate the wort add yeast ferment out at 18-20/c

when it comes time to bottle this ...your final gravity reading will come out near 1010 ...i bulk prime ...to find out how to do this ...read link i put at the bottom of my other post...if FG comes out around the 1010 mark i bulk prime with 160g cane sugar for 23 litres ...

cheers simpletotoro

 

[Jonny]

Those both look like good recipes. I'm looking forward to getting some more brews going

I read up on bulk priming and I'll be trying it out.

Thanks for the help, I'll be sure to ask here if I have any questions.