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SJW

As you must brew, so you must drink
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Could you please explain how you work out your efficiency when doing a part mash. The default setting on the computer programs is 75%. With my last brew Beersmith worked out @ 75% efficiency the estimated OG would be 1074. Now for some reason i got 1064. Now is that a funtion of my Brewhouse Efficiency or is it unrelated? Because if i keep winding back the efficiency, @ 50% i get an OG value of 1064. Am i on the right track?
 

pint of lager

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Yes, you are on the right track.

Next time, use 50%. As your brewing techniques improve, so will the efficiency increase. For your first few part mashes, 50% is fine.

There are two parts to efficiency, the first part is your ability to extract the maximum wort from your grains and the second part is the brewhouse losses in the hops and hotbreak.

Don't sweat the efficiency, concentrate on good brewing and it will increase.
 

Trent

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SJW
Like pint of lager says, your efficiency will improve with your brewing. I have only just started out on ag, and I have been improving 5-7% each brew (but I cant expect that trend to keep up for too much longer!). I have found that keeping yer mash at 66-68 and then adding a little more hot water for mash out and keeping the runoff very slow has helped my efficiency increase.
Good luck
Trent
 

SJW

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So what is the "MASH OUT all about. The beersmith program says to raise temp to 75deg C for 10mins. Why?
Also that is a little hard to do if u mash in an esky.
Also when i sparge why not keep sparging until u reach your total boil amount rather that just 2 of 4 litres. Surley u cant sparge too much.
 

sosman

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SJW said:
So what is the "MASH OUT all about. The beersmith program says to raise temp to 75deg C for 10mins. Why?
Also that is a little hard to do if u mash in an esky.
Also when i sparge why not keep sparging until u reach your total boil amount rather that just 2 of 4 litres. Surley u cant sparge too much.
I mash in an esky. Are you batch or fly sparging?

- Batch sparge you want runoff as fast as possible. Apparenty for fly slow is better to prevent channeling.

Depending on how you arrange your volumes, you can mash out in an esky. I batch sparge and at the end of the mash add a relatively small amount of boiling water (about 1 litre per kg of grain). This gets the temperature up to around 75C.

The way I batch sparge is documented at:
brewiki: batch sparge

With my latest setup, with which I have brewed exactly once, I hit 90% efficiency for an APA. The specifics of this brew are at:

brewiki: allgrain #2

cheers
 

chiller

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Hi SJW,

A mash out is a period of time [about 10 minutes] where the grain bed temperature is raised above the temperature for enzyme activity. By doing this you finish your mash at the end of this period. Also raising the temperature helps free up the sugars ready for the sparge.

Is it necassary -- probably not. I have done a mash out and not noticed any real difference in my beers so now I don't bother. Others do and report good results so it is a personal thing.


The second part of your question has me stumped.

Batch or fly sparge you calculate the amount of water you need to achieve a boil volume.

PM if you need help with BeerSmith.

Steve.
 
J

Jovial_Monk

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You can mashout by eitehr adding boiling water or running out all the wort, boiling that then adding back to the tun.

I am a bit sceptical about the benefits of a mashout, both in terms of ending enzyme activity and making the sugars more viscous and so easier to collect

Jovial Monk
 

chiller

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Jovial_Monk said:
I am a bit sceptical about the benefits of a mashout, both in terms of ending enzyme activity and making the sugars more viscous and so easier to collect
JM,


Be as skeptical as you like the science says otherwise.

Raising the temperature by either method you indicated will denature the enzymes and thin the viscosity of the runoff.

Be a skeptic but check accepted facts :D

Steve
 

Murray

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I'm not exactly sure of the benefits of ending enzyme activity. Starches should be fully converted by the end of the mash and all enzyme activity will be ended by the wort boil anyway.
 

wedge

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I appreciate the fact the mashout reduves teh viscousity of the runoff, but i have never understood the reasoning behind stopping the enzymic activities. Can anyone clear this up for me?
 

JasonY

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no expert but I think it has something to do with stopping them (the enzymes that is) from converting the more complex (and less fermentable) sugars into the simple sugars.

If you don't kill the buggers (those enzymes) they can be breaking down your nice comple sugars you got from your 68deg mash while you are sparging. Well I think that is the theory but I have not noticed it overly ... can't say I have given it a good test either but :)
 

Darren

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wedge said:
I appreciate the fact the mashout reduves teh viscousity of the runoff, but i have never understood the reasoning behind stopping the enzymic activities. Can anyone clear this up for me?
Howdy Wedge,
I will have a go. ALL enzymes are proteins. All proteins are composed of a sequence of amino acids.
The amino acid composition of a protein determines it shape, structure, function and stability. Each enzyme has an unique amino acid sequence. Generally, each enzyme is only able to perform ONE specific fuction.
Enzymes also have optimal temperatures at which they work the best. They also have temperatures at which they are inactivated.
In biological systems there are many, many different enzymes. Some work at optimal temps of 15 degree C and are inactivated at slightly higher temps. Others can still operate at temperatures in excess of 90 degree C. Amylases (found in malted barley) operate at their best in the 60-70 degree C range although they work well at lower temps too albeit at a slower rate (just takes longer). Generally, If you heat amylases beyond about 75 degree C the structure (amino acid bonding) of the enzyme begins to break down. This is known as denaturing. Denaturing destroys the activity of an enzyme. Denaturation by heat is irreversible.
hope this has helped
Darren
 

SJW

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IMO A true mash out can not work too well if your esky is chockers with mash, it does not leave much room to add boiling water for mashout?
So the rule is slow lauter for fly sparge and fast for batch?
With my next one i will go the batch and not fly and see if i can up my efficiency
 

Murray

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Darren said:
wedge said:
I appreciate the fact the mashout reduves teh viscousity of the runoff, but i have never understood the reasoning behind stopping the enzymic activities. Can anyone clear this up for me?
Howdy Wedge,
I will have a go. ALL enzymes are proteins. All proteins are composed of a sequence of amino acids.
The amino acid composition of a protein determines it shape, structure, function and stability. Each enzyme has an unique amino acid sequence. Generally, each enzyme is only able to perform ONE specific fuction.
Enzymes also have optimal temperatures at which they work the best. They also have temperatures at which they are inactivated.
In biological systems there are many, many different enzymes. Some work at optimal temps of 15 degree C and are inactivated at slightly higher temps. Others can still operate at temperatures in excess of 90 degree C. Amylases (found in malted barley) operate at their best in the 60-70 degree C range although they work well at lower temps too albeit at a slower rate (just takes longer). Generally, If you heat amylases beyond about 75 degree C the structure (amino acid bonding) of the enzyme begins to break down. This is known as denaturing. Denaturing destroys the activity of an enzyme. Denaturation by heat is irreversible.
hope this has helped
Darren
I understand the biochemistry of it, but that still doesn't explain the benefit. Starches are already converted, there will be negligible change during the sparging process, all the enzymes will be joining the hot break in the boil anyway.
 

Doc

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Here is my angle on the Mash Out.
By mashing out at the end of the mash schedule you pretty much then have available what has occured during the mash (ie no more conversion).
Then when you want to brew the same beer again you should have a better chance of replicating the beer you have previously brewed ( ingredients and mash technique being equal).
If you don't mash out then it adds a lot more variables to the beer that will be more difficult to replicate if you want to brew exactly the same beer again.

My $0.02.
Beers,
Doc
 

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