Braumeister - Tips & Tricks

[Cervantes]

After a fair while away from brewing im finally getting back into it. Just couldnt keep it up while I was studying and 2 little kids. We finally moved and now I have time to brew.
Anyway, I've decided to buy a 114 litre ss brewtech kettle to compliment my 50 litre braumeister.

What i plan to do is use the braumeister and the kettle on the same brewday. The wort from the braumeister will be pumped into the grain bed of the kettle and then from the kettle, wort will be pumped back into the braumeister.
This will allow me to brew 100 litres of wort and have temp control from the braumeister. The large 114 litre kettle will be BIAB and depending on gravity of beer have anywhere from 15 to 30 kg of grain in the bag.
Does anyone do this or has tried this and how would I go about entering this into beersmith? Just got beersmith.

Cheers

Looks like it could work to me. I have the 20L and was doing double batches by using a separate keggle for the boil, which freed up the BM to start the second mash. But I think that this looks like a great idea if you want a lot of the same beer.

Please post and let us know how you go with it.

 

[Thefatdoghead]

Ill record my findings and post back here. Just not sure how to go about entering it into beersmith. Ill just go oldschool and do it off the top of my head. Ha.

 

[mckenry]

I reckon it is somewhere in the order 0.8-1.0L/kg. For 10kg of grain you mashed in with 55L then sparge with 15L, what gravity and volume into the fermenter? For a 42L batch I would mash in with 50L and sparge with 10L (and I leave a lot behind in the BM after I chill, 8L or so). You are using 10L more water.

I mashed with 55L. Sparged with 15. So that's 70. My losses were 5L to trub and chiller. Boil then transfer = 50L into the fermenter at about 1.042. Expected 1.046 with eff set at 72%. I think the preboil was approx 66L. So depending on the boil evap it would suggest far less than 1L/kg absorption.

I just did a volume measure on the 50L brau. The 55L mark is actually 56.8, but I am going to assume 55L and give the 1.8 to the pumps and hoses.
In fact all the measurements are 1.8-2.0L above what the brau would show.

Getting back to grain absorption.
I took measurements during my brewday, but didn't know what volume they equated to til now.
Was aiming for 50L into fermenter. Got 51.
Total water = 70L (55 mash, 15 sparge)
My preboil was 64.5L so that is only 5.5L/9.85kg lost to absorption. Which equals 0.56L/kg

Everything else worked out right, WHICH IS A PROBLEM...

Evap set at 5L/hour and lost 6L over 75minutes
loss to trub and chiller 5L
cooling shrinkage 2.3L

So;
Preboil 64.5 - Total losses 13.3
=51.2 L into the fermenter... which is close enough to my estimated 51L
PROBLEM IS MY GRAIN ABSORPTION IS SET TO DEFAULT 1L/kg
Any ideas?

 

[Black n Tan]

I just did a volume measure on the 50L brau. The 55L mark is actually 56.8, but I am going to assume 55L and give the 1.8 to the pumps and hoses.
In fact all the measurements are 1.8-2.0L above what the brau would show.

Getting back to grain absorption.
I took measurements during my brewday, but didn't know what volume they equated to til now.
Was aiming for 50L into fermenter. Got 51.
Total water = 70L (55 mash, 15 sparge)
My preboil was 64.5L so that is only 5.5L/9.85kg lost to absorption. Which equals 0.56L/kg

Everything else worked out right, WHICH IS A PROBLEM...

Evap set at 5L/hour and lost 6L over 75minutes
loss to trub and chiller 5L
cooling shrinkage 2.3L

So;
Preboil 64.5 - Total losses 13.3
=51.2 L into the fermenter... which is close enough to my estimated 51L
PROBLEM IS MY GRAIN ABSORPTION IS SET TO DEFAULT 1L/kg
Any ideas?

I also have measured the top marking as 57L so we are in agreement on that. How did you measure you pre-boil volume to come up with the grain absorption? If the mash in volume was 57L then wouldn't that make your grain absorption 7.5L/9.85kg=0.76L/kg, closer to my estimated 0.8L/kg. What was your overall efficiency? I get 72% leaving behind 7L of trub in the BM (I immersion chill and don't get caught up trying to extract every last drop, although there certainly is room for improvement). Are you sure your grain was cracked properly? What was the mash schedule? After sparging I put the mash pipe on the inverted BM lid over a bucket and collect an extra couple of litres during the boil and chuck it back in near the end of the boil.

 

[wobbly]

PROBLEM IS MY GRAIN ABSORPTION IS SET TO DEFAULT 1L/kg
Any ideas?

Go to TOOLS, OPTIONS, ADVANCED, and you will see on the first box where you can change your grain absorption value

A word of caution just be sure that you input the right value otherwise all of your brews will be out because this value is a global value for all brews not just the current brew.

You may need to fine tune it with subsequent brews

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[mckenry]

I also have measured the top marking as 57L so we are in agreement on that. How did you measure you pre-boil volume to come up with the grain absorption? If the mash in volume was 57L then wouldn't that make your grain absorption 7.5L/9.85kg=0.76L/kg, closer to my estimated 0.8L/kg. What was your overall efficiency? I get 72% leaving behind 7L of trub in the BM (I immersion chill and don't get caught up trying to extract every last drop, although there certainly is room for improvement). Are you sure your grain was cracked properly? What was the mash schedule? After sparging I put the mash pipe on the inverted BM lid over a bucket and collect an extra couple of litres during the boil and chuck it back in near the end of the boil.

I measured the depth of wort with a ruler as 435mm

I measured today the radius as 221mm

pi *r^2 * 370 gives me 56.8L at the 55L marker. close enough to 57L
pi *r^2 * 435 gives me 66.5L
If I use the formula for my wort volume it is 66.5L preboil
If I use the marker as 55L, then the preboil is 64.5L

Total water using the formula at 57, plus 15L sparge, measured by urn, gives 72L
Total water using the marker at 55 plus 15L sparge, measured by urn, gives 70L

In either case - I only lose 5.5L to 9.85kg grain.
Thats not a problem, but if I sparged with less water I would have got less into the fermenter.
My losses were easily measured and are accurate.
This is where I dont know what to do.

 

[mckenry]

Go to TOOLS, OPTIONS, ADVANCED, and you will see on the first box where you can change your grain absorption value

A word of caution just be sure that you input the right value otherwise all of your brews will be out because this value is a global value for all brews not just the current brew.

You may need to fine tune it with subsequent brews

Cheers

Wobbly

Thanks Wobbly,
This is what I'm asking about grain absorption for. I know I can do that, but I want to be sure I'm right with my figures. Just doesnt make sense that I'm getting less absorption, but still pretty close to 'volume into fermenter' when set to standard 1:1 or some bloody 0.96floz :0.98oz at 2 leagues under the sea with a pound of hogsheads under each furlong or whatever the measurement is.

 

[mckenry]

Maybe it was the speed of the sparge? Too fast and I end up with too much water?
Crack was as per normal on my 3V with was always around 75% eff.

 

[Black n Tan]

In either case - I only lose 5.5L to 9.85kg grain.
Thats not a problem, but if I sparged with less water I would have got less into the fermenter.
My losses were easily measured and are accurate.
This is where I dont know what to do.

I am not sure I understand why using the two different methods your grain absorption would be the same, but guess you have given it some thought. I think the best advice I can give you is enter the results (volumes, efficiency, losses etc) you got for your first batch into your brewing program and go from there. If you believe your grain absorption is 0.6L/kg then enter that. What was you efficiency? Most get something in the range of 72-78% brewhouse efficiency. Keep measuring everything and then adjust your settings for the next batch. After a few brews you will settle on some figures that work for you. For me I don't bother measuring volumes so much anymore, I just measure my pre-boil gravity and adjust if necessary (usually only a slight adjustment is needed if anything) and usually this fill my kegs so all is good.

 

[wobbly]

McHenry

Where are you reading this grain absorbption figare?

Is it on the "Mash Profile" page if so the way to change that to reflect the real world is input the correct value you are experiencing in the grain absorbption value found under the Advanced Tab

Wobbly

 

[mckenry]

McHenry

Where are you reading this grain absorbption figare?

Is it on the "Mash Profile" page if so the way to change that to reflect the real world is input the correct value you are experiencing in the grain absorbption value found under the Advanced Tab

Wobbly

Thats the place I'm reading it Wobbly.
Maybe I'm making this too difficult to understand.

Using the default settings I should lose 9.87L as my grain weight is 9.85kg. - thats in the Mash tab. Cant change that.
By default in advanced it is actually imperial but it doesnt matter. 1:1

I'm using 9.85kg grain.
If I go off the marked rod - Mashed with 55L, sparged with 15 (70 total) and still had 64.5L preboil. Thats a loss of only 5.5L/9.85kg

If I go off the calculated volume using V=pir^2 - Mashed with 57L, sparged with 15 (72 total) ans still have preboil 66.5. Still only a loss of 5.5L/9.85kg

 

[Black n Tan]

I'm using 9.85kg grain.
If I go off the marked rod - Mashed with 55L, sparged with 15 (70 total) and still had 64.5L preboil. Thats a loss of only 5.5L/9.85kg

If I go off the calculated volume using V=pir^2 - Mashed with 57L, sparged with 15 (72 total) ans still have preboil 66.5. Still only a loss of 5.5L/9.85kg

I understand what you mean the the volume difference remains the same whatever method you use. Cant help you with the changes in the grain absorption in promash or whatever program you are using. I think you should be happy getting close to target on your first go and think you will find that things will improve. Still surprised by the grain absorption figure, but see what happens on subsequent brews.

 

[Cervantes]

I have the 20 litre and use a grain absorption value 0.5860 fl oz/oz.

This is the default grain absorption ratio for BIAB and confirmed by Dicko's research. I've never taken accurate measurements to verify it, but it seems to be pretty close for me.

 

[mckenry]

I understand what you mean the the volume difference remains the same whatever method you use. Cant help you with the changes in the grain absorption in promash or whatever program you are using. I think you should be happy getting close to target on your first go and think you will find that things will improve. Still surprised by the grain absorption figure, but see what happens on subsequent brews

I use beersmith and have done for a long time. Know it well and had about 8 or 9 profiles setup depending on which boiler I used, which mash tun, chill or no chill losses were different etc. I never had to change the grain absorption figure. I've never done BIAB or brau before but I know the BIAB folk get lower grain absorp figures due to squeezing. I thought maybe theres something about a brau that drains after a fullish volume mash that led to lower absorp figures. I'll just keep brewing, keep recording and keep making beer...

 

[mckenry]

I have the 20 litre and use a grain absorption value 0.5860 fl oz/oz.

This is based on Dicko's research and seems to be pretty close for me.

WHOA ! welcome to the discussion! The same as BIAB for a braumeister?
Thats 1L:1.6kg
I got 1L:1.8kg on my first run....
Nice to hear from you. Could be onto something. Is Dickos research on here or the braumeister forum?

 

[Cervantes]

Nice to hear from you. Could be onto something. Is Dickos research on here or the braumeister forum?

It may be in this thread.............

https://forum.braumeisters.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=759

Of course the grain absorption will vary depending on on your crush, the malt type and whether or not you push down on the top plate when draining the malt pipe, and also how patient you are with regard letting every last drop of wort drain out.

 

[wobbly]

Anyone still using the "fabric mesh screens" that were originally supplied with the BM's when they were first available in Australia way back when.

If so are you able to indicate about what size (mesh) the material filter is and is it the same or finer (tighter weave) than the current SS mesh screens.

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[Thefatdoghead]

Thats the place I'm reading it Wobbly.
Maybe I'm making this too difficult to understand.

Using the default settings I should lose 9.87L as my grain weight is 9.85kg. - thats in the Mash tab. Cant change that.
By default in advanced it is actually imperial but it doesnt matter. 1:1

I'm using 9.85kg grain.
If I go off the marked rod - Mashed with 55L, sparged with 15 (70 total) and still had 64.5L preboil. Thats a loss of only 5.5L/9.85kg

If I go off the calculated volume using V=pir^2 - Mashed with 57L, sparged with 15 (72 total) ans still have preboil 66.5. Still only a loss of 5.5L/9.85kg

What temp did you take the sparge volume at? 80 deg? Is your sparge volume spot on?

 

[danestead]

WHOA ! welcome to the discussion! The same as BIAB for a braumeister?
Thats 1L:1.6kg
I got 1L:1.8kg on my first run....
Nice to hear from you. Could be onto something. Is Dickos research on here or the braumeister forum?

I get 0.5L/kg absorption loss which agrees with what you are getting.

 

[zoigl]

I am not at home,in Tassie on holidays. The mesh wraps around the ss seive and that is why I like it.I am not sure about size. I have some coming from Germany, should be here in a few weeks.