Boil Time

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That protein tends to foam, coagulate and drop from the top. That's what you are looking for.

Although, tbh, as some advice was given me when I started out, you'd be stuffed if you can always distinguish it. A 15 minute hard boil is enough to safely say its happened already.

Cheers
 
What you will see is a creamy foam layer on top of your wort form when getting it up to boilling. You can't miss it. It covers the top of your pot. Once you have a steady boil for a while it will start to circulate through the wort with the boilling action.

Goid


That foam layer is actually not the hot break, although many brewers believe it is.

Batz
 
I always brew to very specific targets - the targets in my recipe. And because I take the care to engage in a little "fapping about" - I always hit them.

I see a very large distinction between "just making beer" and "making the beer you intended to make" - i'm completely uninterested in the first and have devoted years of effort to the second. I reckon I can afford 30mins added to my brew day to make room for the difference.

to each their own

I didn't mean to offend Thirstyboy. I make the beer that I intended to make also, and hit my targets. We just do it from a slightly different approach.

:beerbang:
 
That foam layer is actually not the hot break, although many brewers believe it is.

Batz

Ok. I stand corrected.

Would I be correct to say that this foam will clump with the hot break during the boil?

Goid
 
Thanks for that. Still a few weeks from cookup yet but now I know what I'm looking for. For record everything I read seems to suggest me being new to AG to do a 90 min mash and boil so that's me.
Cheers chris

Thirsty probably spot on. Do a 90 for each and you won't **** up Fine tune when you know your system....And there is always plenty to do in the extra half hour!
 
Thirsty probably spot on. Do a 90 for each and you won't **** up Fine tune when you know your system....And there is always plenty to do in the extra half hour!

Couldnt agree more. I use the extra 30 mins to clean my mash tun and recirculate pbw through my mash tun, pump and herms coil. Then I measure out my hops, have a beer and its time to rock and roll.
 
Ok. I stand corrected.

Would I be correct to say that this foam will clump with the hot break during the boil?

Goid


I'm not sure if it will clump or not Goid, but it will end up with the trub which includes your hot break. It is believed by may brewers that it is beneficial to your brew, that's why I do not skim it off.
It is said to both improve your beers head and be beneficial to your yeast production.
Hot break begins the form after around 5-10 minutes into the boil.

batz
 
I'm not sure if it will clump or not Goid, but it will end up with the trub which includes your hot break. It is believed by may brewers that it is beneficial to your brew, that's why I do not skim it off.
It is said to both improve your beers head and be beneficial to your yeast production.
Hot break begins the form after around 5-10 minutes into the boil.

batz

Sooooo much misinformation and/or slightly off kilter information.

Warning - Clarification for its own sake! Not for people who get narky about over complicating things or who lose concentration if a post is longer than two paragraphs. Do yourself a favour and skip to the next post.

Hot break is a generic term that simply covers all the shit that previously being in solution, comes out of solution as your wort heats up, mostly proteins or proteins bound to other stuff. This happens continuously from the moment the first enzymes in your brew (enzymes are protiens remember) begin to denature at about 40 odd degrees and keeps on happening continuously until the wort cools down.

The rate at which it happens increases a lot as the wort hits the boil, because naturally things are getting hotter - but the difference between 99 and 100 really isn't that much - but also because as the wort boils, it starts to bubble and much of the chemistry of break formation happens on the liquid gas interface of the bubbles. You start to notice the hot break after the worts been boiling for a while, because the movement of the boil brings the protiens, polyphenols and small particles of break into conact with each other causing them to knit into larger, visble particles - The great percentage of it happens earlier in the boil, but its been and is happening the whole time.

"The" Hot Break is some sort of figment of homebrewer imagination - so if you cant spot it, thats OK.... it doesn't actually exist.

However:

Its not a bad idea to wait until the foamy scum dissapates before you tip in your hops.... while its there your wort is at a point where its kind of vulnerable to boiling over. Tipping a whole bunch of small particles (hops) into it can make it foam up suddenly and end up on your floor :(

Its also not a bad idea to wait till your wort has been boiling for a little while - for instance 10 or 15 mins or until you start to see some hot break forming into particles. After that you know that a fairly good proportion of the total hot break has happened. Which is nice, because as hot break forms, it can bond to the bittering substances in your hops and reduce their total bittering potential. By putting in your hops after much of the hot break has already formed, more of their bitterness is available for your beer. A good economic thing if you dont want to spend too much money on bittering hops (really a commercial rather than a home consideration, the difference isn't all that great) and also a consistency thing - because different grists will have different amounts of break material and therefore differently affect how your hops are able to bitter your beer - mostly avoided by adding your hops "After the Hot Break" and ticking off a smallish box on the long list of "things I could do slightly more consistently in my brewing".

So the advice in the above thread is mostly right - and now know why (roughly)

Yours in overcomplexity - TB
 
Awesome post, TB. Cheers.
 
Slightly off topic...When doing a hop addition at flame out, is it best practice to cover the pot to keep the nasties out, or leave uncovered? Or does it really make no difference?

I would assume that uncovered should be ok as the wort is still REALLY hot, but covered would prevent losing wort to evaporation.

Just curious...
 
Slightly off topic...When doing a hop addition at flame out, is it best practice to cover the pot to keep the nasties out, or leave uncovered? Or does it really make no difference?

I would assume that uncovered should be ok as the wort is still REALLY hot, but covered would prevent losing wort to evaporation.

Just curious...


I personally leave lid off. This will help the convection to stop quicker, which will help when I start to whirlpool.

This is just what I do. Haven't tried with lid on. The amount of evaporation of water from the wort wouldn't be that much.

Goid
 
Sooooo much misinformation and/or slightly off kilter information.
TB


I'm not sure if it will clump or not Goid, but it will end up with the trub which includes your hot break.

I think you will find this correct.

It is believed by may brewers that it is beneficial to your brew, that's why I do not skim it off.
It is said to both improve your beers head and be beneficial to your yeast production.

I said it is believed, and after 14 plus years of AG brewing it is my experience, misinformation or not this is what I have found works for me and I have never seen it proven otherwise.Because it works for me I put it out there in case others may like to try it.

Hot break begins the form after around 5-10 minutes into the boil.

Well I'm happy to be proven wrong on that.

Its also not a bad idea to wait till your wort has been boiling for a little while - for instance 10 or 15 mins or until you start to see some hot break forming into particles
TB

Yep agree with that.
 
I wasn't talking about that bit Batz - sorry. Just the general stuff about what hot break is and isn't, when it happens etc.
 
snip

Its not a bad idea to wait until the foamy scum dissapates before you tip in your hops.... while its there your wort is at a point where its kind of vulnerable to boiling over. Tipping a whole bunch of small particles (hops) into it can make it foam up suddenly and end up on your floor :(


snip

Slightly :icon_offtopic:

I really do enjoy reading your posts TB, very informative information for all brewers.

Just wondering about the snipped bit... I often do a FWH addition instead of a 60min etc, just because that's what I've always done. I've never had a very big problem with boil overs and always thought that adding them before the 'hot break' forms helps subdue the amount of initial foaming. I know you've often been a FWH'er (IIRC) and was wondering if that addition helps prevent boil overs in your experience (or anyone elses), instead of adding the hops as the wort comes to the boil - ie, during the period of boil over vulnerability.

Sorry for the de-rail... back to boil times!
 
Slightly :icon_offtopic:

I really do enjoy reading your posts TB, very informative information for all brewers.

Just wondering about the snipped bit... I often do a FWH addition instead of a 60min etc, just because that's what I've always done. I've never had a very big problem with boil overs and always thought that adding them before the 'hot break' forms helps subdue the amount of initial foaming. I know you've often been a FWH'er (IIRC) and was wondering if that addition helps prevent boil overs in your experience (or anyone elses), instead of adding the hops as the wort comes to the boil - ie, during the period of boil over vulnerability.

Sorry for the de-rail... back to boil times!

Adding hops before the wort comes to the boil can help prevent boilovers. The hops release oil which helps break up the surface tension and they also provide nucleation points that help the kettle come to a smooth even boil. Hop oils are the basis of a number of commercial anti foam products.

Before it comes to the boil - fine
After it been boiling for a little while - fine
When its first coming to the boil - mild potential issue.
 
I prefer to do all my beers with a 60min boil. I think no-chilling makes stuff all difference. That way my vol calc are always the same. I do how ever prefer a strong boil, and if you have no boiled off all the DMS and other shit by 60min, IMHO you are not boiling hard enough. Also my 60min timer starts once I have gotten rid of the protein from the top of kettle. I don't skim, I just stir it back into the kettle.

QldKev
 

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