crozdog
Lunchbox Legend!
- Joined
- 29/8/05
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Hi,
First an overview of what I'm attempting / thinking, then my questions. (sorry in advance as there are a lot)
I brewed a fair bit years ago, but with the advent of kids haven't done anything for about 8 years. I started again last year doing K&K's, extracts, ESB fresh worts & some grain steeps.
Along with a mate, I'm currently in the process of compiling the bits & pieces to go AG. :super: As there are 2 of us involved, & we are both time poor, we want to brew bigger volumes so that from 1 batch on brew day, we both end up with 2 fermenters each ie about an 80L batch post boil.
That will fit into the kegs nicely & keep us going for a couple of weeks. :beer:
To date we have collected:
- a 100L pot for the boil,
- a HP burner from Gameco
- a 95L HLT (actually an old stainless laundry copper like Agro's),
- a 75L rectangular esky. (This is affectionately known as "The mother of all eskies" & has been part of many big events for some time so it'll be good to continue its involvement in intoxication in a new form!)
- a 4000l/h pond pump
I've started making the manifold for the esky, but will need to seal up the existing bung hole & make a new one lower down. I'm considering using aquarium silicon to seal in a nylon breadboard patch over the existing hole in the esky / tun.
We intend to batch sparge to obtain the preboil volumes required, ie drain the wort then add sparge water, stir, sit & drain. (An alternative could be to top up the boil to make up for evaporation).
We would like to recirculate the cooling water, however neither of us has a pool or rainwater tank that we could use for this purpose. (Well my kids do have an 8' diameter 20" high inflatable that could be commandeered.... but I dunno if the volume would be enough or if SWMBO will want to pack it away for winter - it is in the middle of the rear entertaining area...)
Due to its efficiency, we're considering making a counterflow wort chiller. The designs, web pages & forum entries we've read discuss obtaining typical results of around 1-5 degrees above input water temp for a 23l brew in 10-30 minutes. An alternative is to make a "Hybrid" as described by Palmer in Appendix C ie a coil inside PVC pipe.
Due to the thermal mass of 80l of wort we'll obviously need a lot more water &/or ice to cool things down than a 23l brew would need!
We would be real happy if we could cool this volume down in 45 minutes or less.
Questions:
1. From what I've read, there is little difference in time between making a single batch and larger amounts. Is that correct?
2. Is aquarium silicon food safe? If not what would you suggest?
3. is nylon breadboard OK for sealing the old bung hole? If not what would you suggest?
4. Has anyone attempted cooling this volume of hot wort in a home brew situation (ie without the use of plate heat exchangers) before? If so what results did you get? What techniques did you use to cool it?
5. Can anyone assist with the formulae required to help design such a system? (neither of us did thermodynamics or the like at uni)
6. Any suggestions as to how we could build a recirculation system?
7. Could the hot wort be run through a radiator to drop the temp by about 50 degrees prior to entering a CFWC? Or would it be better to cool the hot water output from the CFWC prior to recirculating it? (I've seen a small unit with a fan drop 80 degree water output from a condensor coil down to about 20-25 degrees)
8. Would we be better off making a smaller volume of a higher gravity wort, then using water addition to reach a target gravity? (this might help boil volumes slightly, but still would be a fairly large volume to cool wouldn't it)
9. Is a 45 minute cool time too adventurous for this volume? What's realistic?
10. Most people sem to use a 6-9m long CFWC. What would be the effect of increasing the length of a CFWC to 18m (ie using a whole roll)? Would that just heat up the CFWC water output further?
11. Does anyone have any experience / comments / suggestions re the hybrid type chiller ie coil in PVC?
12. I do have a "mains pressure" water cooler that I picked up. It is designed for supplying an office bubler or chilled water tap on a sink. It is only rated @350W & I think 12l/min. Could that be incorporated? If so, what would you suggest? (Note, I don't have a mains pressure pump)
13. Is convoluted copper tubing available anywhere in Sydney? If so where & what is it worth?
Please feel free to offer any other advice / recipes /suggestions etc about how to get this project operational.
Thanks in advance.
Cheers
Crozdog
First an overview of what I'm attempting / thinking, then my questions. (sorry in advance as there are a lot)
I brewed a fair bit years ago, but with the advent of kids haven't done anything for about 8 years. I started again last year doing K&K's, extracts, ESB fresh worts & some grain steeps.
Along with a mate, I'm currently in the process of compiling the bits & pieces to go AG. :super: As there are 2 of us involved, & we are both time poor, we want to brew bigger volumes so that from 1 batch on brew day, we both end up with 2 fermenters each ie about an 80L batch post boil.
That will fit into the kegs nicely & keep us going for a couple of weeks. :beer: To date we have collected:
- a 100L pot for the boil,
- a HP burner from Gameco
- a 95L HLT (actually an old stainless laundry copper like Agro's),
- a 75L rectangular esky. (This is affectionately known as "The mother of all eskies" & has been part of many big events for some time so it'll be good to continue its involvement in intoxication in a new form!)
- a 4000l/h pond pump
I've started making the manifold for the esky, but will need to seal up the existing bung hole & make a new one lower down. I'm considering using aquarium silicon to seal in a nylon breadboard patch over the existing hole in the esky / tun.
We intend to batch sparge to obtain the preboil volumes required, ie drain the wort then add sparge water, stir, sit & drain. (An alternative could be to top up the boil to make up for evaporation).
We would like to recirculate the cooling water, however neither of us has a pool or rainwater tank that we could use for this purpose. (Well my kids do have an 8' diameter 20" high inflatable that could be commandeered.... but I dunno if the volume would be enough or if SWMBO will want to pack it away for winter - it is in the middle of the rear entertaining area...)
Due to its efficiency, we're considering making a counterflow wort chiller. The designs, web pages & forum entries we've read discuss obtaining typical results of around 1-5 degrees above input water temp for a 23l brew in 10-30 minutes. An alternative is to make a "Hybrid" as described by Palmer in Appendix C ie a coil inside PVC pipe.
Due to the thermal mass of 80l of wort we'll obviously need a lot more water &/or ice to cool things down than a 23l brew would need!
We would be real happy if we could cool this volume down in 45 minutes or less.
Questions:
1. From what I've read, there is little difference in time between making a single batch and larger amounts. Is that correct?
2. Is aquarium silicon food safe? If not what would you suggest?
3. is nylon breadboard OK for sealing the old bung hole? If not what would you suggest?
4. Has anyone attempted cooling this volume of hot wort in a home brew situation (ie without the use of plate heat exchangers) before? If so what results did you get? What techniques did you use to cool it?
5. Can anyone assist with the formulae required to help design such a system? (neither of us did thermodynamics or the like at uni)
6. Any suggestions as to how we could build a recirculation system?
7. Could the hot wort be run through a radiator to drop the temp by about 50 degrees prior to entering a CFWC? Or would it be better to cool the hot water output from the CFWC prior to recirculating it? (I've seen a small unit with a fan drop 80 degree water output from a condensor coil down to about 20-25 degrees)
8. Would we be better off making a smaller volume of a higher gravity wort, then using water addition to reach a target gravity? (this might help boil volumes slightly, but still would be a fairly large volume to cool wouldn't it)
9. Is a 45 minute cool time too adventurous for this volume? What's realistic?
10. Most people sem to use a 6-9m long CFWC. What would be the effect of increasing the length of a CFWC to 18m (ie using a whole roll)? Would that just heat up the CFWC water output further?
11. Does anyone have any experience / comments / suggestions re the hybrid type chiller ie coil in PVC?
12. I do have a "mains pressure" water cooler that I picked up. It is designed for supplying an office bubler or chilled water tap on a sink. It is only rated @350W & I think 12l/min. Could that be incorporated? If so, what would you suggest? (Note, I don't have a mains pressure pump)
13. Is convoluted copper tubing available anywhere in Sydney? If so where & what is it worth?
Please feel free to offer any other advice / recipes /suggestions etc about how to get this project operational.
Thanks in advance.
Cheers
Crozdog
