Biab Hoisting Or Pulley System?

[user 10246]

Hey Mark,

How do you have your esky setup? I have an old esky here, but can't afford another ball lock valve, false bottom etc etc.

Maybe i missed something in making a cheaper MT. Anything for simplicity & effective here :icon_cheers:

 

[MarkBastard]

I don't have an Eski mate, I BIAB.

I'm just saying, imagine if BIAB was the 'normal' way to brew beer, and we were all sitting around after a while a bit annoyed at the bag hoisting and squeezing. Someone then comes up with elaborate structures to hold the bag without needing a skyhook. Someone elses uses electronic hoists. Also the whole time we are talking about ways to insulate the urn during the mash.

Then some bright spark comes up with a great idea, why not do the mashing in a separate vessel to the boil? We could even use an eski for its inbuilt insulation! We could then just sit it higher than the kettle so that there's no hoisting needed, and gravity does all the work!

I honestly think if BIAB was the default someone would come up with 3V brewing as a better alternative (better in some ways).

The main issues I have with BIAB are.

1 - Insulation during the mash.
2 - Draining / squeezing / lifting the bag.

Everything else is perfect. Less equipment, less room needed etc.

If you're going to custom weld a structure to lift the bag you may as well custom weld a brew stand.
If you're going to buy an electronic hoist you may as well buy a march pump.

etc.

But again this is just my opinion, I like that people are going overboard. It's fun.

 

[samhaldane]

I have just started creating a loop with the end of my bag drawstring and tieing a taut line hitch. This allows me to adjust the bag up and down easily depending on what I'm doing (draining, dunk sparging). My new house conveniently had a hook mounted in the middle of the top of my back doorway, which works a treat.

Happy to post some pics if people are interested, but will have to wait until Sunday (brewday).

 

[katzke]

The main issues I have with BIAB are.

1 - Insulation during the mash.
2 - Draining / squeezing / lifting the bag.

Everything else is perfect. Less equipment, less room needed etc.

Lift the bag or deal with an Eski full of grain and left over wort?

Heat loss is easy. Wrap the dang kettle with any old blanket or whatever.

I have seen home brewers mess about with their fancy systems. They can keep it. Especially the cleaning of pumps, pipes, and valves.

 

[MarkBastard]

Lift the bag or deal with an Eski full of grain and left over wort?

The Eski one seems much easier. When I lift and drain the bag it is an annoying task. It is also annoying to deal with spent grain from a bag and I don't see how it'd be much worse than dealing with spent grain in an eski. I imagine with an eski you would use the eskis own handles to carry it to the bin, dump the grain in, then hose the rest out. Quick wipe down and its good to go. With a bag you have to get it to the bin without dripping, empty it, then rinse out excess grain from the bag as much as possible then put it in the washing machine. Eski wins this round.

Heat loss is easy. Wrap the dang kettle with any old blanket or whatever.

This is what I currently do and it's annoying. A vessel with in-built insulation would be much easier.

 

[Phoney]

If you're going to custom weld a structure to lift the bag you may as well custom weld a brew stand.

Unless of course, you dont have enough room for a brew stand. A structure to lift and hang a bag takes up no room.

I like that people are going overboard. It's fun.

And I love going overboard! :icon_cheers:

The Eski one seems much easier. When I lift and drain the bag it is an annoying task. It is also annoying to deal with spent grain from a bag and I don't see how it'd be much worse than dealing with spent grain in an eski. I imagine with an eski you would use the eskis own handles to carry it to the bin, dump the grain in, then hose the rest out. Quick wipe down and its good to go. With a bag you have to get it to the bin without dripping, empty it, then rinse out excess grain from the bag as much as possible then put it in the washing machine. Eski wins this round.

You're doing it wrong.

Get garbage bags, you buy a pack of 30 for 3 bucks. Put the opening of the BIAB bag into the opening of the garbage bag, lift the bottom of the BIAB bag and transfer the grains from one to the other. Tie it off so it dont stink and hurl it into the bin. Then turn the BIAB bag inside out and shake it a few times like you're shaking sand off a beach towel, then give it a quick rinse under a tap & hang it out to dry. Once it's dry give it another good shake and it's all done for next time.

This is what I currently do and it's annoying. A vessel with in-built insulation would be much easier.

Takes me all of about 20 seconds to wrap a blanket around the urn, loop a rope around and tie it off.

 

[QldKev]

We built our pulley system into the main stand, that way you can brew anywhere.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...st&p=534851

QldKev

 

[MarkBastard]

Unless of course, you dont have enough room for a brew stand. A structure to lift and hang a bag takes up no room.

I can't think how it could possibly take up no room. A skyhook yes, but a stand will surely at least take up room vertically and some amount of room horizontally. I don't have the space for either by the way.

Get garbage bags, you buy a pack of 30 for 3 bucks. Put the opening of the BIAB bag into the opening of the garbage bag, lift the bottom of the BIAB bag and transfer the grains from one to the other. Tie it off so it dont stink and hurl it into the bin. Then turn the BIAB bag inside out and shake it a few times like you're shaking sand off a beach towel, then give it a quick rinse under a tap & hang it out to dry. Once it's dry give it another good shake and it's all done for next time.

Actually I empty my spent grain back into the vacuum bag that the grain came in and then wrap it in two woolworths plastic bags and chuck it in the bin, but you haven't really taken my point into consideration which compares the two methods. I can dump an eskis grain into a garbage bag just as easily for example.

It's interesting though what you've said with regards to the bag. Do you ever wash it?

Takes me all of about 20 seconds to wrap a blanket around the urn, loop a rope around and tie it off.

So you have a dedicated BIAB blanket sitting in your brewery? Doesn't this take up about as much room as an eski would? Me I have to go and grab it off the spare bed, hope the spare bed doesn't have crap all over it, take it downstairs, wrap it around, and then go and make the bloody bed again afterwards.

If I had the space for a dedicated blanked I'd have the space for an eski and I know which one I'd prefer!

I do have a two part tool chest like the following

I'm thinking about getting an eski and going two vessel and using a make shift gravity fed system. I'll start my urn up on my work bench as a HLT, with an eski sitting on the bigger part of the tool chest, with the smaller tool chest on the floor. I'll use the urn to fill the eski, then move the urn down to sit on top of the smaller tool chest so that I can gravity feed from the eski back to the urn which will work as a boiler.

Only extra room it will take up is the eski which isn't that much if I get one that only holds about 35L

 

[katzke]

The Eski one seems much easier. When I lift and drain the bag it is an annoying task. It is also annoying to deal with spent grain from a bag and I don't see how it'd be much worse than dealing with spent grain in an eski. I imagine with an eski you would use the eskis own handles to carry it to the bin, dump the grain in, then hose the rest out. Quick wipe down and its good to go. With a bag you have to get it to the bin without dripping, empty it, then rinse out excess grain from the bag as much as possible then put it in the washing machine. Eski wins this round.




This is what I currently do and it's annoying. A vessel with in-built insulation would be much easier.

Talk to heating contractors. I saw a brew system that had an insulated mash tun and it used the double foil covered fiberglass or whatever it is like they wrap heating pipes or flues with. It put up with the heat of the gas burner just fine. The only problem was if you spilled any wort it got in the insulation.

Sounds like you are a glass half empty, grass is always greener, kind of person.

Not sure you would really like to move an Eski around that is head high. If it is not head high then the boil kettle is not high enough to drain into the fermentor.

And to answer your later posted question. Who washes the bag in the clothes washer? I dump the grain out for the chickens, give some to the dogs, rinse any leftover down the drain and hang the bag to dry. I do not want any soap or fabric softener residue getting in my beer. The only time I clean the bag any different is when I forget to dump the grain after a late night end to a brewing session. Then I clean it with PBW.

Oh and if I do not dump the grain out for the chickens then I dump it in a bucket. The rest is the same. I would much rather dump and rinse a bag then clean an Eski with a filter screen in it.

 

[komodo]

Get yerself to BlueScope Distribution (I recently discovered the one in Ballarat) and you will find spray cans of high-zinc paint for less than ten dollars...

F*** those pricks. They import fully fabricated steel from China under their "bluescope-butler" brand and their PEBs and try to pass themselves off as supporting Australian jobs. All they support is the lining of their shareholders pockets.
Sorry just a touchy subject.
http://www.bluescopesteel.com/news/bluesco...steel-buildings
/end rant

Zincit should be around the $10 mark and available (or a comparitive product) at most bolt/fasteners distributors. ie Coventrys, Warburtons etc.
On a side note steel lasts a bloody long time even when rusted. Unless you've got something in a highly corosive environment and its made of extremely thin material I'd just hit it with a wire brush and a can of primer. Cheaper and just as effective.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Apologies if I appear to be trying to bring the conversation back on topic...

Here's a pic I took of the aforementioned gantry:

I can't get the IMG thing to work for me...

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

F*** those pricks. They import fully fabricated steel from China under their "bluescope-butler" brand and their PEBs and try to pass themselves off as supporting Australian jobs. All they support is the lining of their shareholders pockets.
Sorry just a touchy subject.
http://www.bluescopesteel.com/news/bluesco...steel-buildings
/end rant

I hear ya, but I've convinced myself there are no moral large companies left and if I want to buy stuff, I just have to live with all that.

 

[MarkBastard]

Sounds like you are a glass half empty, grass is always greener, kind of person.

Not at all.

Not sure you would really like to move an Eski around that is head high. If it is not head high then the boil kettle is not high enough to drain into the fermentor.

I cube which is a moot point as my cube is as high as a fermenter.

My kettle is about 40cm high.

All up I could easily have my mash tun about 80cm off the ground, certainly no where near head height (WTF) and I never mentioned moving the mash tun anyway! I mentioned moving the urn from HLT position to kettle position. The urn would be empty by that stage so no dramas in moving it.

 

[Ross]

I'm thinking about getting an eski and going two vessel and using a make shift gravity fed system. I'll start my urn up on my work bench as a HLT, with an eski sitting on the bigger part of the tool chest, with the smaller tool chest on the floor. I'll use the urn to fill the eski, then move the urn down to sit on top of the smaller tool chest so that I can gravity feed from the eski back to the urn which will work as a boiler.

Only extra room it will take up is the eski which isn't that much if I get one that only holds about 35L

:super: perfect.....

Cheers Ross

 

[Phoney]

I can't think how it could possibly take up no room. A skyhook yes, but a stand will surely at least take up room vertically and some amount of room horizontally. I don't have the space for either by the way.

No. My stand is basically two pipes, one has legs. The two pipes slide apart and then lay down, outside, on the ground, along the wall, behind the BBQ where I cant see them. Could I keep an esky mush tun outside in the dirt & exposed to the weather? no.

It's interesting though what you've said with regards to the bag. Do you ever wash it?

Nope. I soaked it in napisan once to bring back the whiteness, but that was it.

So you have a dedicated BIAB blanket sitting in your brewery? Doesn't this take up about as much room as an eski would? Me I have to go and grab it off the spare bed, hope the spare bed doesn't have crap all over it, take it downstairs, wrap it around, and then go and make the bloody bed again afterwards.

If I had the space for a dedicated blanked I'd have the space for an eski and I know which one I'd prefer!

That sucks, I pull mine out of a linen closet and then put it back in when im done. Takes me another 20 seconds. Have a look in vinnies..

I'm thinking about getting an eski and going two vessel and using a make shift gravity fed system. I'll start my urn up on my work bench as a HLT, with an eski sitting on the bigger part of the tool chest, with the smaller tool chest on the floor. I'll use the urn to fill the eski, then move the urn down to sit on top of the smaller tool chest so that I can gravity feed from the eski back to the urn which will work as a boiler.

Only extra room it will take up is the eski which isn't that much if I get one that only holds about 35L

Well that sounds great, but when I was looking at starting out in AG, $295 for an esky that had been converted to a mash tun from my LHBS (I didnt have the confidence, time or inclination on building my own gear at that stage) on top of the $270 for an urn was beyond my means and budget so I decided to go with BIAB, and I still reckon im better off space wise and equipment wise on improving what ive got rather than acquiring another vessel.

 

[PistolPatch]

Mash Tuns and Tiers

A mash tun is not fun to clean. The inconvenience of this (and I have done both) is more than the few second inconvenience of hoisting a bag and the rinsing of the grain bag (do it under a tap and then throw in washing machine.) This is even more so for double-batches.

Another huge advantage of BIAB over a non-pumped traditional system is that BIAB is a single tier system with the tier being at bench height. With a non-pumped traditional system, many people (unless they have a four-tier stand made up of tiers at varying heights) end up having to lift their full kettle (hot if they are no-chilling) to a height at which it will drain into the fermenter. You don't hear this talked about too much .

Insulation

I know that some people like to insulate their kettles but doing so can also lose one advantage of BIAB, this being the ability by the occassional stir and application of heat to maintain a consistent mash temperature. Maintaining the correct mash temperature is not a difficult or time-consuming process so people should not feel as though insulation is an advantage.

Pulleys

Pulleys are simple and great especially if doing double batches. I usually do double batches so I have good pulleys and a cleat which allows me to let the bag hang in or just above the wort. Spent the first two years though doing it all by hand.


Pat

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Not at all.



I cube which is a moot point as my cube is as high as a fermenter.

My kettle is about 40cm high.

All up I could easily have my mash tun about 80cm off the ground, certainly no where near head height (WTF) and I never mentioned moving the mash tun anyway! I mentioned moving the urn from HLT position to kettle position. The urn would be empty by that stage so no dramas in moving it.

I know this is OT to this topic - but if you do that, you either need to use another vessel as a buffer tank to hold your first run-off from the eski (your kettle is being used as your HLT) OR - you need to make sure your eski is big enough to hold the full volume, so you can do a single run-off/no sparge type brew.

Given that - it will of course work perfectly. I've brewed that way myself a fair few times and next to (un-mucked about with) BIAB its about the easiest way to handle your mash/lauter.

 

[MarkBastard]

I'm a BIABer but it really shits me off when people from both camps make out their processes are simpler than they are.

Like as if building a simple eski mash tun is so hard but building a structure out of poles to hoist a bag and then dissembling it to store it in the garden is really easy and convenient.

It's not for my benefit, it's for the benefit for anyone reading who is thinking how they want to go with AG. There's no need to sell your process to people, just be accurate about it IMO.

 

[MarkBastard]

OR - you need to make sure your eski is big enough to hold the full volume, so you can do a single run-off/no sparge type brew.

That's my intention.

I will probably do this soon enough. Then from there I'll decide if I want to make/buy a HLT and go fully 3V, or just go back to standard BIAB and use the Eski for beer.

 

[haysie]

I honestly think if BIAB was the default someone would come up with 3V brewing as a better alternative (better in some ways).

That happened many moons ago

I had a go at biab and hated the pulley,drain,squueze thing. I never pursued it further but have tasted some great BIAB beers nonetheless.