Belgian sugar orgy experiment...

[Mr. No-Tip]

So I've decided to continue my series of not particularly scientific fermentation experiments with suggestive titles.

We've all heard the suggestion that simple sugars should not be added to Belgians until the ferment is well underway. The theory is that this prevents the yeast pigging out on the simple sugars and tiring themselves out before getting through all the maltose.

I've brewed a Belgian Golden Strong each year for the last two years. My recipe is pretty simple with 75% pils and 25% dextrose and the White Labs Belgian Strong Ale yeast. In 2013, I added the dextrose a few days into fermentation, following the theory and finishing up at 1.006. Last year, I just 'turned off' and added it at zero. I'd just forgotten about the rule.The beer ended up stalling at around 1.010, putting some creedence to the late sugar theory. Thankfully with another week at 24 degrees, a good yeast cake stir, the beer finished up at a 1.003 for a whopping 96% apparent attenuation. The bottles took a good while to carbonate, but eventually they did, and it went on to be a pretty successful beer at the nationals last year.

So while the straight edition had problems, it wasn't problematic in the long run. I want to now test this with a bit more rigour.

Last night I brewed 50l of BGS, split into two batches. One got the sugar edition and started at 1.072, the other was pitched at 1.050 and will get the sugar in a few days.

I'll update this thread with observations of the ferment, final gravity, and final product, hopefully giving something definitive to the theory...

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

12 hours. The sugar addition batch started fermenting a bit ahead of it's lighter brother. There is ~2l more in the sugar beer due to the boiled water to dissolve the dextrose.
24 hours. Both beers are up and running now. The (so far) no sugar edition beer now has a larger krausen - 4cm to about 2cm on the sugar eaddition beer. That surprises me. Both beers have been bumped from 19 to 20.

 

[Dae Tripper]

Cool experiment! I look forward to the results

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

48 hours. The difference in Krausen became more stark. Surprisingly to me, the 1.050 without sugar additions had about 12cm of krausen, while the 1.072 version with the now higher volume remained at about 2cm of krausen.

72 hours. First gravity check. Again surprising. The small version is down to 1.026, but the big guy isn't far behind - 1.032. I will add the sugar addition tomorrow.

 

[seehuusen]

Interesting, I like these types of experiments. Keep up the good work

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

Six days in now. Two days since the second beer got it's extra ~20 points of gravity at around 1.026.

The late addition sugar is now down to 1.006. Pretty epic.
The early addition is down to about 1.020. It's dropped 12 points in two days, which isn't shameful, but it's definitely struggling.

I think we have some fair confidence on attenuation speed at least - as for final product, we'll have to wait and see.




As a side note, I found the hydro samples interesting to taste. Neither feels as belgiany as I like, but I do feel that bottle conditioning really completes these beers. More interestingly, I find it odd how sweet they taste, even the 1.006 one. They feel sweeter than other samples at similar gravity. I wonder if it's a contrast against the belgian yeast that gives this sort of perception? I am sure some carb will dry out the mouthfeel quite a bit - plus they both have plenty more to go!

 

[Dae Tripper]

You have some interesting things to think about in the results so far.
Could you please outline your process of adding the sugar?

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

I use dextrose, which dissolves quite nicely.

I weigh out into a Pyrex container and then add boiling water while stirring. I tend to add a couple more pours of a couple hundred mls until the slurry runs clear.

I then pour into the fermenter - hopefully a bit more carefully for the mid ferment addition.

This recipe uses almost 25% simple sugar - about 1.5kg of dextrose for 21l. The liquid used to dissolve the dextrose brings the volume up a bit over 2l.

Given the huge attenuation of these belgian yeasts, a super big beer can be right with an OG of around 1070, and arguably just a bit too big if you went for the 1090 plus we often aim for in RIS's or Barley Wines. I've never seen anything close to the 1.016 FG that is cited as in style....maybe it's all the dextrose I add...

 

[Mardoo]

When you say nothing "close to the 1.016 FG that is cited as in style" you mean your FG's are lower, yes? Of course that's what it looks like from your experiment, but I'm just being double-dumb sure.

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

When you say nothing "close to the 1.016 FG that is cited as in style" you mean your FG's are lower, yes? Of course that's what it looks like from your experiment, but I'm just being double-dumb sure.

Yep that's what I meant.

Perhaps just pushing to 1.090 might make the difference. The percentage of simple sugar would also be a factor. I've never tried that high or an "all grain" belgian golden strong.

For me the appeal is that super spritzy, dry spice and fruit. As I said last night, both samples felt a little too sweet for me, even the 1.006 when uncarbonated.

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

The weekend got away from me, so ten days in I've taken another gravity reading.

The early sugar addition is still showing signs of fermentation and is hovering around 1.010. I won't actively stir unless it really conks out.
The late sugar addition has blown my mind. The gravity is hovering around 1.001, or 98.6 apparent attenuation. Checked with two hydrometers.

I will give the early sugar addition another 5 or so days, and hopefully bottle both on the weekend...

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

Both beers dropped down to 1.000 in the end - potential finding - addition time doesn't effect final gravity.
The early addition took almost two weeks longer to do so - obvious findings there.
The early addition is taking longer to carbonate. Both batches are in a fridge at 24.5 to aid conditioning. Unfortunately I fell for a major rookie error and dropped a probe. The bottles have been around 30 for a day or so. Whoops/shit/damn.

Might well effect the final, most important taste test, but at least the temp flux happened to both batches.

 

[Samuel Adams]

1.000 bloody hell, that is one hungry yeast strain !

Let us know how they taste. I reckon adding later hides the alcohol better & reduces hot alcohol tastes.

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

I am actually going to start another threat about the 1.000 thing....Right now...

 

[Adam Howard]

Depending on what balance of alcohols are produced during the ferment you will often taste an alcohol 'sweetness' in what a hydrometer tells you should be a dry beer. Really good clean alcohol production from healthy yeast gives you the sweet taste. If fermentation conditions hadn't been as favourable and plenty of high alcohols were produced you'd get more of a solventy unpalatable flavour.

 

[Lincoln2]

**** dude, that was like reading an Agatha Christie novel.....the suspense. You're a champion. I'm too lazy to replicate but I will take the info and run a best case scenario; you do the work and I reap the rewards..

I went to a real orgy once. Weird and awkward and disappointing, I won't do it again despite my cool facial hair.

 

[Whiteferret]

When you say nothing "close to the 1.016 FG that is cited as in style" you mean your FG's are lower, yes? Of course that's what it looks like from your experiment, but I'm just being double-dumb sure.

 

[Whiteferret]

Ignore this ^
Don't know how I posted it in my pocket.