Belgian Recipe Critique

[manticle]

I've slowly been learning that balancing out the sweeter, specialty flavours with good base malts and getting good attenuation, (coupled with yeast strain) are key to making good dubbels and belgian style strong ales.

That's not to say I've come anywhere close yet. I'm designing my next one and would appreciate any critique. Obviously the recipe is only as good as my fermenting procedures.

Type: Partial mash
Size: 21 liters
Color: 30 HCU (~15 SRM)
Bitterness: 28 IBU
OG: 1.077
FG:1.016
Alcohol: 7.8% v/v (6.1% w/w)

Mash: 70% efficiency
Boil: 90 minutes
SG 1.064
25 liters

Grain: 4kg JW Pilsner
200g Belgian biscuit
200g Cellar Plus crystal
100g Cellar Plus chocolate (no idea where cellar plus get their grain but I have a couple of kilo bags of each in my fridge)

Additional sugars:

500g Light dry malt extract

Added during primary:
1kg Belgian candi sugar
300g dextrose (dissolved and cooled)

Hops:

40g Hallertauer (4.25% AA, 60 min.)
20g Saaz (3.75% AA, 30 min.)
20g Saaz (3.75% AA, 15 min.)
10g Saaz (aroma)

Wyeast 3787 (slurry based starter)
Nutrient (old kit yeasts in boil)

I may add more extract if I don’t hit my target gravity but this is the closest to an all grain brew I’ve yet come.

Any advice or tweaking would be most welcome, including any basic tips on water adjustments from Melbourne brewers.

Thanking anyone and everyone in advance.

 

[reviled]

Can I ask why youve got the DME in there when youre mashing so much grain? May as well make it an AG? Or are you limited to space?

My 2 cents, id sub the chocolate for caraaroma, and maybe a hint of carafa for a true belgian dubbel taste!

 

[manticle]

Can I ask why youve got the DME in there when youre mashing so much grain? May as well make it an AG? Or are you limited to space?

My 2 cents, id sub the chocolate for caraaroma, and maybe a hint of carafa for a true belgian dubbel taste!

The LDME really is optional. I was aiming for something between 7 and 8 abv but that's not as important as hitting the balance of malty sweet , warm alcohol and dry finish. Keep in mind my mash tun is a 10L esky and another 5 L esky which will have to be upended through a strainer into a pot and batch sparged so no grain beds or fancy 3 tiered systems and such. Thus I'm not 100% confident in hitting the efficiencies. The LDME will be on reserve so it may actually end up being my AG cherry popper (probably should set myself an easier target hey?)

If I get a chance to get to GG or place an order I might look at the extra grains you suggested. Was just going with what I already have.

Cheers

 

[jbirbeck]

I'd say drop the crystal and use caramunich instead, and drop the choc and use carafa for the color adjustment if needed and that will depend on which candi sugar you are using. You shouldn't need any choc or carafa if you have dark or amber candi but you will if you have clear. The alternative would be to drop the color adjustment and use special B to get the raisiny flavours in there. But thats up to you and may also depend on the candi you use.

My view - use the DME, it won't hurt and will bump up the OG a bit...

Hops - I've tended to use Styrian as opposed to Saaz but the hops don't matter as much given the yeast is the main flavour driver. (I can rarely pick out the hop flavour or aroma in a Belgian because it is so yeast driven) So I'd probably also drop the flameout and use a 20 min addition instead of the 30 and 15 BUT that is personal pref.

 

[manticle]

Candi sugar will be homemade so colour is entirely up to me.
3787 seems to have a lot of raisin notes. Does special B complement this?

Thanks for the input. Looking like a visit to GG for some extra malts is on the cards

 

[petesbrew]

I'd say drop the crystal and use caramunich instead, and drop the choc and use carafa for the color adjustment if needed and that will depend on which candi sugar you are using. You shouldn't need any choc or carafa if you have dark or amber candi but you will if you have clear. The alternative would be to drop the color adjustment and use special B to get the raisiny flavours in there. But thats up to you and may also depend on the candi you use.

My view - use the DME, it won't hurt and will bump up the OG a bit...

Hops - I've tended to use Styrian as opposed to Saaz but the hops don't matter as much given the yeast is the main flavour driver. (I can rarely pick out the hop flavour or aroma in a Belgian because it is so yeast driven) So I'd probably also drop the flameout and use a 20 min addition instead of the 30 and 15 BUT that is personal pref.

I'm a styrian & saaz fan. Done it for my 4 belgians and it works a treat. (actually haven't done anything else, so must branch out next time)

 

[Swinging Beef]

I reckon just go for it.
The recipe looks good.
Its impossible to say what should stay or go without YOU tasting if first and making your own mind up from there.
It looks to me that you have done a fair bit of reading about the style you want already in your selection of ingredients, and how you are gonna throw them all together.

 

[manticle]

Thanks. Really just looking to see if I'm on the right track or stupidly way off - the last couple of Dubbels I've muddled through have been a bit sweet. I'm starting to realise that maybe following a few tried and true recipes will be a good idea until my basics are better, then starting to tweak and develop my own a bit more. Arrogant chef in me needs to become an apprentice for a while.

I'll start putting this one together next week or so I reckon. Dr Smurto's Golden and the Better red than Dead are also on the cards, along with a big stout.

 

[Supra-Jim]

Manticle,

I've just put Jamil's Belgian Blonde Ale on Tap (Brewing Classic Styles) and it is a very nice drop so far. Not a Leffe Clone, but still a very nice Belgian ale coming in at 7.3%.

Was my first attempt at a Belgian, so thought i would stick with a tried and tested recipe.

Cheers SJ

 

[manticle]

Another book I need to buy.

 

[Supra-Jim]

Yeah you can buy it (I eventually bought it), but for quite i while i've been downloading the podcasts from TBN/itunes and just writing down the recipes. The podcasts are vgood in conjuction with the book as you get a bit of extra info (and a dose of waffle!!)

Cheers SJ

 

[PostModern]

Thanks. Really just looking to see if I'm on the right track or stupidly way off - the last couple of Dubbels I've muddled through have been a bit sweet.

Make sure you mash fairly cool, like 64-65C. Mashing too hot will leave a lot of unfermentable dextrins in the brew.
I found in my partial mash days that DME tends to be less fermentable than I'd like.

 

[manticle]

Thanks. That's the kind of info I need