Beer Foamies, Or Very Expensive Icecreams

[Eugene]

Helo all,

I have just, (last week) put my first brew into a keg, a CUB 50 lt, I have a micro-matic coupler, a Harris reg, and a KEG-ON-LEGS gas bottle.

I put my brew, only 23 lts as that was all I had ready to go, and had no cories at the time, (i now have two).

Beer in, Burped, and stuck in the fridge with 40psi of CO2 on top, checked the next day, 20PSI on top, Cool, its taking gas, regased to 40psi, left at 40 for 4 days in a 3 deg c fridge.

Now, the fun begins, I bleed the keg down to 5 psi, put the bucket under tap, (a micro matic through the side of the fridge job) and poured, FOAM, no beer, mmmm, over gassed I think and leave it for a day with only 5 psi on it.

come back, try to pour a glass, FOAM, no beer at all in the glass, just foam, the first bit to come from the tap is foam, then a little bit of liquid, then foam and so on, say half a second of beer, and three seconds of foam.

But here is the strange bit, if I leave the glass sit for a minute or two, the beer settles, say half a glass, and is dead flat, no bubbles, no head, nothing, dead, just like it came from the fermentor, only cold.

A mate up the road had the same drama (exactly) we got so angry we didnt touch the kegs for three months, left them in the fridge with 20psi for 3 months, we fitted the same tap as mine to his fridge, 4 psi to pour, and got perfect beer, one pour perfect, now mine is shit, is it going to take three months to gas my beer, or is there something else im missing.

I have read the pinned guide to forced carbonation, and tried it, no difference, lots of faom and flat beer, I am pretty much over it, beer has been in a 2-3 deg fridge for 5 days, all lines etc are new and the same sixe, I have barbed fitting coming out of the coupler, not quicksnap to reduce the turbulance, new tap, new reg, damm im over it.

Looks like the bottles will be getting another run after all, I hate washing bottles.

 

[razz]

Evening Eugene, may I ask how long are your beer lines ?

 

[Tony]

i think we may have sorted it in the background

i recon its because he has gassed it to a gertain volume and is pouring at a much lower pressure than is required to hold the gas in solution, causing froth in the lines.

he has almomst identicle setup to me and i use the same carb method.

only i pour with about 12 psi, not 5 psi.

hope im right.

I cant stand to hear of wasted beer.

cheers

 

[oldbugman]

sounds like you've over carb'd it.

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

Hi Eugene,
Before I started kegging I read so much about the ins and outs on gassing. The correct pressure to use the length of hose to use, what part of the world I lived in, what was the best time of day to do it, whether ones mother inlaw was present during gassing, I think you get the idea. Basically I worked it out for myself. Yes I had the first couple or few like icecream, but you not what I got it right in the end. I could post my way but what works for me may not work for others, and it could even cause much debate. If you are interested PM me.

BYB

 

[razz]

i think we may have sorted it in the background

i recon its because he has gassed it to a "gertain volume" and is pouring at a much lower pressure than is required to hold the gas in solution, causing froth in the lines.

he has almomst identicle setup to me and i use the same carb method.

only i pour with about 12 psi, not 5 psi.

hope im right.

I cant stand to hear of wasted beer.

cheers

Hey Tony, that "gertain volume," is that from the same dictionary as "rice gulls" ? :lol:

 

[tangent]

kegging is as hard to balance as brewing. sad but true. i'd rather have undercarbed beer than wash and fill another bottle.
the Celli flow restricter has helped me though.

 

[Tony]

Hey Tony, that "gertain volume," is that from the same dictionary as "rice gulls" ? :lol:

Oh leave me alone.



im trying to type on a laptop in the dark half cut

cheers

 

[Wortgames]

...regased to 40psi, left at 40 for 4 days in a 3 deg c fridge. Now, the fun begins, I bleed the keg down to 5 psi, put the bucket under tap ... and poured, FOAM

Erm, yep, that's exactly what you'll get!

If you've pushed 40psi worth of gas INTO the beer, and then you reduce it to 5psi, what's keeping that gas in the beer? Nothing! There's an extra 35psi worth of gas now trying to come back OUT of the beer (as foam).

Maybe this wiki topic will help to explain it a bit.

 

[Tony]

I fill a 50 liter keg with hot beer, put it in the fridge and charge it with 250 Kpa for exactly 3 days.

I drop the pressure to 80 to 100 Kpa and it pours perfect like at the pub.

if i leave it for 4 days and do the same i get foam

after 2 days its flat as week old road kill

Its fairly critical, the whole time, pressure, temp, line thing.

the only way to work it out is to SLOWLY tune it, remembering that any change will take days to reach equilibrium, not hours!!!

I find my line is too short and i get a gass bubble in my line that causes foam each time i pour.

For ages i ran the keg at low carbonation to prevent this but recently i have upped this to get the correct carbonation. i just keep an old beer mug on top of the fridge and "burp" a bit out to drop the pressure in the line. I can then pour a perfect beer that holds a 3/16" head for an hour.

i empty the mug of about 150 mls for every carton of beer so the loss is not going to break the bank

as was said before...... everyone does it different, its finding your equalibriun thats important.

and filling the keg right up might help too........... its just a waste of space that could be beer !!!

cheers

 

[Batz]

Hi Eugene,
Before I started kegging I read so much about the ins and outs on gassing. The correct pressure to use the length of hose to use, what part of the world I lived in, what was the best time of day to do it, whether ones mother inlaw was present during gassing, I think you get the idea. Basically I worked it out for myself. Yes I had the first couple or few like icecream, but you not what I got it right in the end. I could post my way but what works for me may not work for others, and it could even cause much debate. If you are interested PM me.

BYB

Spot on BYB

Batz

 

[Wortgames]

Sorry guys, but I have to disagree. It isn't a case of 'black magic' where everyone has to reinvent the wheel to work out how to carbonate their own kegs.

The simple fact is that the results are totally predictable. You take the temperature of your fridge. You set the pressure for the carbonation level you want, and you leave it. It's easy. It happens all by itself.

All this talk of cranking the pressure up for x amount of days then dropping the pressure for x amount more days, then sticking your tongue out at 45 degrees while sacrificing a kitten to the god Ra is simply 'cheating', to try and force gas into the beer faster than it would naturally occur. Cheating is all well and good, but if you are going to do it then learn how to do it properly or face the consequences!

All the people that seem to get frustrated or baffled with their kegging system have one thing in common - THEY ARE ALL SCREWING WITH THEIR REGULATOR!

This is not asseptible, go sit on your naughty chair until you learn to leave the poor thing alone.

 

[sqyre]

I'm not up to speed with whole "pressurising the keg and leaving it" thing.I do forced carb. with the the 18 litre kegs.Carbed up in about 90seconds by rolling the keg back and forth at a higher pressure.
(there is a post somewhere with details)

What i have noticed is there seems to be 4 variables:
1. how cold the keg is.
2. How much pressure you use.
3. How much you shake it up.
and 4. How much is in the keg..

But this may just be a factor of less in the keg the more it can slosh around and absorb co2.
If i was to have say 2 inches of space at the top of the keg compared to 1 inch, my carbonation would be a lot higher for the 2inch. and i mean alot. (and i firmly rock the keg not shake it)
i once tried to gas up 1/2 a keg and it was like that beer of Homer's that Bart shook up.BOOM
Perhaps the gas to liquid surface area X the amount of liquid to be gased makes a difference?

Fark my head hurts... :blink:

Where the hell is a Bio-chemical-nuclear-phyisist-ma-callit when you need one???
Hope this helps but probably won't...

Sqyre..

P.S try force carbing it soooo much easier and quicker once you know the tricks.
and you can monitor how carbed up it is by turning off your reg and monitoring your stablized pressure.



EDIT: and i'm gunna fiddle with my Reg just so i get a good floggin from that Super Nanny :wub:

 

[Eugene]

ouch, now my head hurts, and it isnt the three schooners of 6% Ale either.

I feel I have a couple of things to fix.

1: I only Half filled the keg, a 50 lt keg with a massive surface area, so gas goes in and out easily, next keg will be a full corny.

2: I have 2 meters of line from keg to tap, but it is 6mm ID, and it flow like there is no tommorow, with seving pressre at 100kpa, it will fill a schooner in 2 seconds, I need to slow it down, I was thinking of getting some 4mm, say 2.5 meters and see how I go.

3: I wont try and force carb, full keg, gas on at 100KPA, sit it in the fridge for a week and see how it goes.

the worst part is the wasted beer, I have poured a couple thisafternoon, all at 100kpa, it takes three pours, but at least im not loosing half into the slop bucket, beer is still a little under carbed, but at least it isnt flat like yesterday.

I will keep you posted.

 

[winkle]

EDIT: and i'm gunna fiddle with my Reg just so i get a good floggin from that Super Nanny :wub:
[/quote]

If you're gunna fiddle with your reg could you please do it behind the bike shed

 

[razz]

ouch, now my head hurts, and it isnt the three schooners of 6% Ale either.

I feel I have a couple of things to fix.

1: I only Half filled the keg, a 50 lt keg with a massive surface area, so gas goes in and out easily, next keg will be a full corny.

2: I have 2 meters of line from keg to tap, but it is 6mm ID, and it flow like there is no tommorow, with seving pressre at 100kpa, it will fill a schooner in 2 seconds, I need to slow it down, I was thinking of getting some 4mm, say 2.5 meters and see how I go.

3: I wont try and force carb, full keg, gas on at 100KPA, sit it in the fridge for a week and see how it goes.

the worst part is the wasted beer, I have poured a couple thisafternoon, all at 100kpa, it takes three pours, but at least im not loosing half into the slop bucket, beer is still a little under carbed, but at least it isnt flat like yesterday.

I will keep you posted.

Eugene, if you use the 4mm line you need 2.5 mtrs length with a temp of approx 3 degrees, 5mm is approx 3.3 mtrs so the 6mm will be even longer.

 

[Eugene]

Eugene, if you use the 4mm line you need 2.5 mtrs length with a temp of approx 3 degrees, 5mm is approx 3.3 mtrs so the 6mm will be even longer.

Thanks, thats what I was getting at, now I have the gas in beer pressure and serving pressure the same, I need to slow the flow down, it is just too fast, so I will grab 3 meters of 4mm and try, trim to suit.

Thanks all.

Tony, thanks heaps too,

 

[floppinab]

Just one little other possibility as I was going through this and tried all the solutions and nothing worked until I discovered..........

My liquid out post had corroded (previous owner must have used a caustic cleaning solutions) and pitted at the top, close to where the post leaves the top of the keg. The result was little (very little hard to bloody find) holes in the post which allowed volumes of gas from the headspace in the keg to mix with the beer coming up from the tube into the line. The result perfect ice-cream day in day out, which no amount of reg. fiddling would fix.

 

[razz]

Thanks, thats what I was getting at, now I have the gas in beer pressure and serving pressure the same, I need to slow the flow down, it is just too fast, so I will grab 3 meters of 4mm and try, trim to suit.

Thanks all.

Tony, thanks heaps too,

Sorry Eugene, I should have included this before. I found the 5mm a whole lot easier to work onto the fittings than the 4mm.

 

[Wortgames]

I've got the 4mm-line-onto-barbs down to a fine art now.

You need a pan of (continuously) boiling water, a pair of clean long-nose pliers and a pair of gloves.

Wear the gloves.

Dangle the ends of the lines into the boiling water (don't let the lines hang over the side or they'll melt). Also put your fittings in the boiling water to get them nice and hot.

Push the line onto the end of the longnose pliers a bit at a time, and open the plier handles a bit to create some stretch in the end of the line. Do it a bit at a time, and eventually you'll have stretched it out enough to be able to push it onto the barb without too much trouble.

The hot line is fairly fragile though, just be careful to push it onto the barb nice and straight or you can easily tear it. If you do that then cut the end off and start again.

It's a bit of messing around but it's probably worth it.