Batch Sparging

[JSB]

Kiddies,

I know this has been done to death, but I am trying to get my head around why I only acheived 50% efficiency :angry: on my Partial Mash Dry Irish Stout on Saturday....I have somewhat change my methods as I have read differing opinions of late - my previous results have been in the order of 72% - if it ain't broke don't fix it I suppose but I want to get to the bottom of it.....Can you Big AG boys please provide some comments on my sparge - any comments would be greatly received

Method of Batch Sparge below

1/ Mash in @ 69c for 64c desired Mash Temp
2/ Boil Sparge water in HLT and let settle to desire temp for Sparge say 77c
2/ Check temp at end of 60min mash - add boiling water from HLT to get temp up to the starting mash temp
, wait 10 mins
3/ Recirculate approx 1 litre of wort until it clears, Once the runnings clear, direct the runoff to your kettle, and
slowly pour the contents of your jug back over the top of your mash.
4/ Drain the Tun as fast as the system will allow
5/ When the first runoff is done, close the valve and once again use the pitcher to add your sparge water until the pot
is light enough to lift. Then pour the rest in. Stir the grain thoroughly , close the cooler, and let it rest for a few
minutes.
6/ After the rest, open the cooler and thoroughly stir the grain once again.
7/ Go through the recirculation and draining process again, once more draining the cooler as fast as your system will allow.

Cheers

JSB

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

JSB, two things that I would suggest:

1. Check the crush of your grain, I run mine through twice and my efficiencies are now around 77%. If a brew store does your crush then get them to do it twice

2. Slow down your sparging run-off. I was doing it quickly but the last few beers I have brewed I slowed the run-off so it would take at least 30 minutes up to 45 minutes and again my efficiency improved.

There may be other reasons but I can't see anything else in your method which seems sound.

Good Luck

Cheers and bollocks
TDA

 

[Batz]

Looks good to me
Can't see why your reading change

 

[Jovial_Monk]

A bit worried about having to check and adjust mash temp at end? Aways wrap your esky in blankets during the mash to help keep temp constant.

But yes slow and easy is best.

My rye ale yesterday, first time in a long time, I did not batch sparge, s[parged too quick and my efficiency sucked the big one. Best bitter instead of ESB

Jovial Monk

 

[JSB]

Yeah JM,

I was a little concerned.....50% really did suck the big one.....I had a slow leak out of my mash tun......which I was keeping an eye on maybe my full attention was'nt there - or maybe I just f#*&*$ up.

I was a less partial than partial - if that makes sense.....bulked it out to hit 1050

Cheers for the assistance on the LCPA, I dry hopped with a cascade plug on Saturday.....It is smelling sweet & fruity.......I will drop a bottle in the next couple of weeks....

I need to get some expert's opinion, as my mate are all megaswillers, and wouldn't no an LCPA or an SNPA from a rats a-hab !!!

Cheers
JSB

 

[JSB]

Method of Batch Sparge below

1/ Mash in @ 69c for 64c desired Mash Temp
2/ Boil Sparge water in HLT and let settle to desire temp for Sparge say 77c
2/ Check temp at end of 60min mash - add boiling water from HLT to get temp up to the starting mash temp
, wait 10 mins
3/ Recirculate approx 1 litre of wort until it clears, Once the runnings clear, direct the runoff to your kettle, and
slowly pour the contents of your jug back over the top of your mash.
4/ Drain the Tun as fast as the system will allow
5/ When the first runoff is done, close the valve and once again use the pitcher to add your sparge water until the pot
is light enough to lift. Then pour the rest in. Stir the grain thoroughly , close the cooler, and let it rest for a few
minutes.
6/ After the rest, open the cooler and thoroughly stir the grain once again.
7/ Go through the recirculation and draining process again, once more draining the cooler as fast as your system will allow.

****REVISED METHOD**********

1/ Mash in @ 69c for 64c desired Mash Temp
2/ Boil Sparge water in HLT and let settle to desire temp for Sparge say 77c
3/ Recirculate approx 1 litre of wort until it clears, Once the runnings are clear, direct the runoff to the kettle, and
slowly pour the contents of your jug back over the top of your mash.
4/ Drain the Tun as fast as the system will allow
5/ When the first runoff is done, close the valve and then pour the rest in.
Stir the grain thoroughly , close the cooler, and let it rest for a few minutes.
6/ After the rest, open the cooler and thoroughly stir the grain once again.
7/ Go through the recirculation and draining process again, slowly draining the wort into the kettle

Cheers
JSB

 

[sosman]

Bearing in mind that I have only ever partial mashed 3 times, and only the last of those was a batch sparge (and I hit 75%) ...

Did you stir the grain up with the mash water? You mentioned stirring the second time round (with sparge water). Apart from mixing everything it helps even out the temperature.

What was your water/grain ratio?

Was there anything unusual about the grain bill?

From starting vorlauf to last of wort into the pot (14 litres) it took 55 minutes - that includes rest time for sparge water.

Oh yes and I have had some trouble with some aliens trying to steal my wort the little buggers - but that is a discussion for another board h34r:

 

[Doc]

Interesting to read back on your expriences with batch sparging.
I've read another couple of articles lately that mention batch sparging by draining the MLT as fast as your system allows.
I've been batch sparging for ages now, but have always done it slowly (eg at least a 50 min sparge).

Did a double brew day today and on the first brew batch sparged int 35 mins. Net result missed my target by 8 points.
Next brew sparged for 60 mins and missed by 2 points.

I admit I had changed my recipe calcs for my proper efficiency and for a smaller brew volume, but the length of the sparge when batch sparging does make a difference in my brew system.

Sparge slow, boil hard.

Beers,
Doc

 

[sosman]

Doc - I have read many comments on the flow rates in batch sparging and there seems to be big consensus on "fast as the system will allow". I don't have enough experience personally to vouch one way or another (except that I hit 75% using this method).

I understand the reasoning is that the technique relies on stirring up the sparge water to dissolve remaining sugars so once you hit this notional equilibrium in solution then there is no point holding back.

I would be interested to see what comments would pop up on rec.crafts.brewing if you mentioned your experience, this question has been asked there a number of times before but no one to my knowledge has posted evidence of "slower is better" for the batch method. In particular, Denny Conn is a big advocate of this method and has been doing it for years.

Maybe there is ongoing conversion during the run-off or perhaps it takes more stirring than most people think. What other reasons can you think of for a slower batch sparge runoff to be more effective?

 

[Doc]

Must be the stirring that enables you to speed up the sparge.
I read Denny Conn's article on batch sparging a couple of issues ago in BYO and he definitely recommends doing the big stir up.
I didn't stir throughly, but did mix up the top layers of the grain bed.

I guess it comes down to each persons setup and accordingly YMMV.

Using a batch sparge without mixing up the full grain bed and sparging slowly I get 86% efficiency.

Beers,
Doc

 

[chiller]

The batch sparge method seems to cause quite an amount of confusion when in reality it is very simple.

My efficiencies have not altered with batch or continuous however the time saving is [actually stress factor -- slowly pouring water] is wonderful.

The following points may help.

Grain crush is very important. Crush until you panic.

You will not get a struck sparge.

At the end of the sufficient water to the tun to allow you to run off half of your boil volume. Mix this water through the grain bed without introducing too much air. Make sure you have mixed it well. Let it stand for 5 minutes then recirculate "at least" 5 litres to [a] Settle the grain filter arounf the manifold or false bottom and to wash sugars more into solution.

Next open the tap "AS FAST AS YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE".

I pump mine out with the tap fully open. [Electric pump]

Refill the tun with the balance of water needed to achieve your boil volume, no more as this dilutes the runoff and lowers your efficiency -- remix all the grain bed and repeat the steps above.

Keep your grain bed temperature in the 72 - 77 c range. Your sparge water may need to be actually hotter that you realise to achieve this grain bed temperature

A common mistake with batch sparging is too much water in the second or last refill of the tun. Don't just add a tun full of water. Calculate EXACTLY the water requirements of your system.

Grain/water loses
Equipment loses
Evapouration rate
Chiller loses.


Untill you know those you cannot accurately calculate your efficiency.

One last thing .... measure your grain bill and even tick it off a list. You can easily add too much or miss a specialty grain and muck up your calcs.

Steve

 

[wedge]

why? It wont change you 'efficiency' only the dilution of you final wort?

Adding less water will only mean that the same sugars are dissolved into a less amount of water h34r:

 

[Jovial_Monk]

My Old Ale that I brewed yesterday I sparged two ways

First was a very slow run-off (some of the old brewbooks talk of a "spend less than a quill's thickness" out the tap of the tun.) I got about half my volume from this.

I then shut the tap, added the rest of the spargewater to the tun, stirred like **** then closed & recovered the tun with blankets etc. Left it there for nearly an hour, then again, slow run-off + recirc, then slowly ran off untill all was recovered.

Ended up with a litre more wort of a couple of points above target gravity! This confirms my suspicion that batch sparging works best with long 'rests', an hour or more before running off the second, third etc runnings.

Since the Old Ale would take hours of boiling to reduce volume I was not at all concerned about extra length of brewday. And the best way to batch sparge is to partygyle, where the second lot of sparge water sits in the tunn for the whole length of time the forst beer is brought to the boil, boiled and chilled. Yesterday was meant to be a relaxing day so I deecided against the partigyling.

FWIW, I added tsp of powdered ginger, 1/2 tsp powdered mace (couldn't find me whole mace ) and 20g coriander roughly pounded in mortar & pestle. Be looking to start drinking this lovely dark Old Ale about christmass time. All Amarillo hop additions, hop smelled bloody beaut!

Jovial Monk

 

[Snow]

JSB,

the one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, that may be your problem, is your starting sparge water temp. You say it's 77C in the HLT. My experience is that when you drain the first runnings from the mash tun, you get a sudden drop in temperature, due to cool air being drawn through the grain bed. Thus, if you add sparge water at your desired sparging temp, the "cooled" grain bed actually pulls that temp right down, and you don't get the sugar dissolution that you need. When I batch sparge, I bring the sparge water up to boiling point before adding this to my grain bed. I then get a 78-80C grain bed temp during the sparge. As I am partial mashing, I usually only have 2-2.5 kg of grain, in a 15L esky, so your sparge water temp may need to be lower than mine, as you will have greater thermal mass with a full mash. However, I reckon your 77C is too low to give you a 77C sparge temp.

Cheers - Snow.

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Good point, Snow

After replenishing the tun with the rest of the sparge water I often add 4-5L boiling water, raises the mash temp back up towards 80C

Jovial Monk

 

[Wreck]

Snow, sounds like I've got a similar set up to you, but I've been adding the sparge water at high 70s. Definitely will up the temp next time.

Thanks,
Wreck.