(bad) Bottling - Loss Of Flavour?

[pmcbride]

My last batch (a BIAB english bitter) has been a sad and disappointing affair.

Through the ferment and certainly on bottling day, this had been hands-down the tastiest beer I have made - a wonderful medley of fruitiness and spiciness. But then I bottled it, and now, 2 weeks down track, the beer has lost practically all of its hops flavours apart from some bitterness.

I'll be the first to admit the bottling was probably a bit sloppy. I can taste some tell-tale off-flavours of oxidation - i.e. cardboard - in the beer. I might also have overcarbonated the beer a bit too.

So my question is this - can oxidation and/or overcarbonation result in not only off-flavours but the loss of other flavours in the beer? It just seems to have been stripped of all of its character. If there are other potential explanations I would be very keen to hear them...

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.
Paul.

 

[Adamt]

Oxidation products (cardboard, sherry) can tend to overpower other flavours, as can the carbonic acid bite from overcarbonation. You can also taste less of the beer when it is cold, as opposed to when it is cool/warm (I'm guessing it was warmer when you bottled?)

 

[pmcbride]

Oxidation products (cardboard, sherry) can tend to overpower other flavours, as can the carbonic acid bite from overcarbonation. You can also taste less of the beer when it is cold, as opposed to when it is cool/warm (I'm guessing it was warmer when you bottled?)

Thanks for the reply Adam.

Indeed it was warmer when it was bottled, but I also tried a bottle at room temp to make sure it wasn't just an effect of temperature. It tasted ... different ... but not in the good way.

I suppose it must be the effects of oxidation masking or stripping flavours - I guess I just need better bottling practices...

 

[Ross]

Unlikely that oxidisation is a problem at this early stage, it's far more likely as Adam stated, over carbonation causing a carbonic bite.
Over carbonation is an absolute killer in English Bitters, it strips them bare.

Cheers Ross

 

[pmcbride]

Unlikely that oxidisation is a problem at this early stage, it's far more likely as Adam stated, over carbonation causing a carbonic bite.
Over carbonation is an absolute killer in English Bitters, it strips them bare.

Cheers Ross

I did also try giving a glass of it a good hefty swirl for a while to try and reduce the level of carbonation but it didn't seem to have any appreciable effect on the flavours. I would certainly agree though that it does have a bit of an acidic bite to it.

 

[Stuster]

Another issue could be contamination (which might also be the cause of the over-carbonation). I've certainly found that infections can strip flavour from beers and leave a thin body as well. Two weeks seems a bit short though.

 

[white.grant]

Two weeks seems a bit short though.

Yes.

It may just be a bit green, give it a little while longer to condition. I'd be allowing 4 weeks before forming a definite view.

cheers

grant

 

[winkle]

I did also try giving a glass of it a good hefty swirl for a while to try and reduce the level of carbonation but it didn't seem to have any appreciable effect on the flavours. I would certainly agree though that it does have a bit of an acidic bite to it.

If its lost its flavour profile and over carbonated within 2 weeks AND has an acidic bite, then you've more than likely got an infected batch I'm afraid - drink quick before it becomes undrinkable bottle bombs.

 

[buttersd70]

Yes.

It may just be a bit green, give it a little while longer to condition. I'd be allowing 4 weeks before forming a definite view.

cheers

grant

Bitters are meant to be drunk green.

 

[eamonnfoley]

I've also got a bottled batch (alt - 2 weeks in bottle) tasting very ordinary when compared to one of my kegged batches which are pretty good. Hoping its just green and requires more time. The great flavours at bottling time are no longer present. Paul M, I will let you know how this one turns out.

 

[sm0902]

I've had issues with my bottled beer not being as good as my kegged beer, but it was not with every bottle in a batch. Hard to describe the taste, perhaps a perfume flavour? Very ordinary and across different styles of beer.

I've put it down to how clean the bottles were, and Pat @ Absolute Home Brew suggested a beer film builds up over time in the bottle. Without thorough cleaning it doesn't get removed.

I now soak my bottles overnight in PSR before also cleaning them with the bottle brush. Latest batches have returned to normal.

Slightly Off Topic ... I've found the very few bitters I've done to improve over time. Probably just me though!

 

[white.grant]

Bitters are meant to be drunk green.

Or when they taste at their best B)

 

[buttersd70]

Or when they taste at their best B)

Which, if brewed correctly, should be when they're green. Especially in the case of Bitter, less so for Best. B) B)

 

[pmcbride]

I've also got a bottled batch (alt - 2 weeks in bottle) tasting very ordinary when compared to one of my kegged batches which are pretty good. Hoping its just green and requires more time. The great flavours at bottling time are no longer present. Paul M, I will let you know how this one turns out.

Yes - I'd be very keen to hear if this one improves with time...

 

[pmcbride]

I've had issues with my bottled beer not being as good as my kegged beer, but it was not with every bottle in a batch. Hard to describe the taste, perhaps a perfume flavour? Very ordinary and across different styles of beer.

I've put it down to how clean the bottles were, and Pat @ Absolute Home Brew suggested a beer film builds up over time in the bottle. Without thorough cleaning it doesn't get removed.

I now soak my bottles overnight in PSR before also cleaning them with the bottle brush. Latest batches have returned to normal.

Slightly Off Topic ... I've found the very few bitters I've done to improve over time. Probably just me though!

Hmmm. This sounds definitely like a potential part of my problem. Thanks for the reply. I shall pick up some of the pink stuff!

 

[Stuster]

Unscented napisan works very well too. Leaves you with clear, sparkling bottles again after an overnight soak.

 

[RdeVjun]

Unscented napisan works very well too. Leaves you with clear, sparkling bottles again after an overnight soak.

+1
Until a few months ago I had a poor bottle cleansing method of just rinse thoroughly after use, drain, then a sodium metabisulphite sanitise and boiling rinse before refilling. The obviously gunky ones went through the dishwashing water (first) and got a brush, but I ended up with quite a few gusher infections and, on closer inspection, some pretty manky bottles across the board. There was a dusty film building up all over the insides which I hadn't been paying attention to at all.
So, I had a squiz around here and found that an overnight soak in sodium percarbonate (napisan) and a brush should bring them up spankingly clean, and sure enough it did. My whole bottle stock of about 300 tallies is getting run through a cycle of this, nearly finished now, those that don't come good after two soaks go in the recycling. Rinsing the napisan off/out is tedious, it needs a few changes of rinse water, particularly if using acid rinse/ santiser such as Starsan afterwards. This means though that I'll probably have to cycle through the perc soak all the time, maybe not quite after each batch, but certainly after a few.

Also, its green ESBs all the way for me, four weeks from grain to brain even. Anyone can faff around with lagering if they like, but I'm stuffed if I can wait months and months for a batch, I'm just not that patient!