Apa Recipe Critique

[schooey]

I'm with you Butters... I can't see the point of brewing a beer that isn't going to taste as good as what you think you can brew just so it will fit in with the brewing networks podcast or the BJCP guideline...

I think that recipe looks great, the wheat will give you a nice fine silky head and the cara malts will give you a great colour. I really like Simcoe and Cascade together and I reckon this APA would give a lot of others a run for their money at comp time, but hey, thats just me...

 

[leeboy]

Mmm Mirror Pond APA. Havent had that for years. Out of deschutes paler ales I prefered Quail Springs IPA the most. Top 5 beers ever for me.
Recipe looks great i think. Again APA's have such wide style guidelines. As Schooey said make what tastes best.

 

[geoffi]

I recently made a very similar brew, with Simcoe and Amarillo, but with Centennial instead of Cascade.

About the same amount of wheat too. (I likes me a good dollop of wheat in my PA's.)

And it's tasting pretty bloody good, imho. In fact, considering the amount of Maris Otter in this, I'd say the wheat will be fine.

Go for it is my humble opinion.

 

[Gulpa]

Looks good to me. Dont let them scare you off the MO. Best APA ive done was with MO and WLP Burton yeast. And it was definitely an APA. Personally, Id up the flame out addition.

Cheers
Andrew.

 

[Fourstar]

Can I paraphrase this, to see if I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly?
"This recipe would be awesome, but not to style. "
Did I misunderstand?

That all that I meant Butters. The OP wanted a 'critique' on his recipe and i gave them just that. It's slightly out of style to be using a base malt thats considered quite 'nutty' like maris otter, nothing more. It will make a great beer as i have already noted and will still be an APA.

Personally, if I was to use a UK malt in this recipe I would probably use golden promise as it would be 'more to style'. Maybe JW was a bad example as it has a stigma (which is quite unfounded) around here as being in the 'home brand selection' and second rate.

I find JW base malts to be a quite clean and neutral which is 'to style' with an APA. Flavour: Low to moderately high clean malt character supports the hop presentation, and may optionally show small amounts of specialty malt character (bready, toasty, biscuity). The OP or anyone else can use Barret Burston or whatever they can get your hands on if JW gets peoples panties in a bunch

I'm with you Butters... I can't see the point of brewing a beer that isn't going to taste as good as what you think you can brew just so it will fit in with the brewing networks podcast or the BJCP guideline...

Hey Schooey, I completely agree. As I said above, my grounds for using a clean base malt, even in my recipe, were to keep it in style. As ive brewed numerous APA's all with completly different malt bills, so far ive found a clean base malt to be the best to match it style wise and helps the hops stand out. Specialties malts they can go all out on. Weyermann, UK Crystals etc. If the OP doesnt care for a clean neutral base malt then by all means they can continue to use Maris otter. It now just more of an English bitter with a US hop schedule. Either way, i'd probabaly anihiliate a keg of it, post haste!

Cheers guys! :icon_cheers:

 

[schooey]

Hey Schooey, I completely agree. As I said above, my grounds for using a clean base malt, even in my recipe, were to keep it in style. As ive brewed numerous APA's all with completly different malt bills, so far ive found a clean base malt to be the best to match it style wise and helps the hops stand out. Specialties malts they can go all out on. Weyermann, UK Crystals etc. If the OP doesnt care for a clean neutral base malt then by all means they can continue to use Maris otter. It now just more of an English bitter with a US hop schedule. Either way, i'd probabaly anihiliate a keg of it, post haste!

Hey I can appreciate that, dude. In a way we're debating the same side of the argument, its just tastes differ... and that's what makes it interesting. Everyone's feedback is as valuable as the other's I guess

 

[Fourstar]

Hey I can appreciate that, dude. In a way we're debating the same side of the argument, its just tastes differ... and that's what makes it interesting. Everyone's feedback is as valuable as the other's I guess

Exactly what I expect from you guys! :icon_cheers: rather tahn a never ending argument like the chicken and the egg. Some may consider rock stock 2-row to be a waste of time. Others think it has its place, besides some deep dark corner of the brewery in a 'break glass in case of emergency cube' which is also surrounded by razor wire

How longs a piece of string... which base malt is preferred for which style.... we could go on for hours really.

 

[buttersd70]

I think you've misenterpreted the point of my post, fourstar....it's not an anti-JW thing. I use JW in at least 75% of my beers.....it's an anti "taking styles too seriously, considering them to be the be-all and end-all, interpreting them as gospel instead of guides, and brewing strictly to style, to the detriment of making better beer" post.

APA is a label, not a lifestyle....

edit: I don't want to get into flaming, or pull this thread any further OT, so I'm just going to leave it there, myself.

 

[Fourstar]

Yeah totally agreed butters, im not a style guildeline wh*re either.

cheers.

 

[MattC]

Thanks heaps to all who posted their opinions. I see the value in everyone's advice. I have just finished doing the brew. i knocked the Wheat down to 500g and upped the Marris Otter. Would have to agree that by using MO it will result in a more obvious malt profile than if I had used BB or something similar, however, it was what i had at the time. This is only my 5th AG, so some tweaking with this recipe will hopefully results in a regular house brew to be proud of!!!!

 

[Fourstar]

Hope you Enjoy MattC, it will be a great beer!

Cheers!

 

[glennheinzel]

If you would like to see what your beer might come out like, look no further than Murrays Pale Ale. From the Murrays website http://www.murraysbrewingco.com.au/artman2...lish/our_beers/, it would appear that their Pale Ale uses English malts and Kiwi ("American" style) hops-

"Murrays Nirvana Pale Ale is a hybrid of an American Pale Ale, combined with the classic English Pale Ale. A brilliant light-golden colour, Murrays Nirvana Pale Ale has a full-bodied finish and complex character. With an alcohol content of 4.5% alc/vol, Nirvanas fresh citrusy/spicy aroma and flavour is strongly influenced by generous use of New Zealand-grown Cascade and Hallertau hops. This is well balanced with biscuity/toffee flavours from selected caramalts."

 

[Fourstar]

"Murray's Nirvana Pale Ale is a hybrid of an American Pale Ale, combined with the classic English Pale Ale.

Looks like what we have been haggling over has a commerical example. Neither American or English! :icon_cheers:

 

[dr K]

Within reason, the choice of base malt is going to make very little difference in an APA. An APA needs to be hop driven and clean, clean is easy, do not muddy your malts too much (KISS) and use US05, hop driven again is easy.
I would be looking more at mash temps than base grain when designing an APA.
Do I want a big hoppy beer with a huge malt to support the massive hop character or do I want a refined 4.5-5% where the wonderfull hop aroma is balanced with a delicate bitterness.
My malt of choice is actually Weyermann Vienna (check out their web site for a very simple and very APA-like APA designed by Ray Daniels). Halcyon works a treat, MO is fine as is BB Pale.

K

 

[browndog]

You don't want Maris Otter in an APA, if you want to use Maris Otter, make an English beer. It will turn out much better.

cheers

Browndog

 

[kram]

You don't want Maris Otter in an APA, if you want to use Maris Otter, make an English beer. It will turn out much better.

cheers

Browndog

Is that why you beat me by 1/3 of a point? Bastard! *takes note*

 

[kram]

Thought i'd slightly expand on the above... my take on the whole style thing is if it says "may..." then you may! It doesn't write-off certain malt flavours or say "x is out of style", so why should they be excluded from the malt profile? It specifically mentions a less caramelly profie. It appears origin of ingredients doesn't matter, hello smurto I refer to the style guidelines for... guidance. I'm a big fan of MO in my APAs. Some pretty terrible beers were made when I didn't know what worked with what and guidelines helped with some direction. This isn't aimed at you Browndawg

"Low to moderately high clean malt character supports the hop presentation, and may optionally show small amounts of specialty malt character (bready, toasty, biscuity). The balance is typically towards the late hops and bitterness, but the malt presence can be substantial."

"Grains that add malt flavour and richness, light sweetness, and toasty or bready notes are often used (along with late hops) to differentiate brands."

 

[Fourstar]

You don't want Maris Otter in an APA, if you want to use Maris Otter, make an English beer. It will turn out much better.
cheers
Browndog

Those are my feeling but others think otherwise. Horses for courses and opinions differntiate widely in this community which keeps our topics fruitful. Where does one style begin and another takeover? Is a dry stout still a dry stout if you are using Black Malt instead of Roast Barley? Some would say yes, others would say no. As Butters pointed out, APA is a label, not a lifestyle.

Maybe if this thread was called "pale ale recipe critique" we would not be critiqueing from the same angle. Either way the OP has brewed this bad boy and the beer will be great either way.

Cheers!

 

[ramu_gupta]

Thanks for the great comments. As a beginning all grain brewer, I have really enjoyed learning about the effects of different types of malt on beer.
Cheers,

 

[technocat]

I go with fourstar nothing wrong with JWM pale for a good APA and a helluva lot cheaper than MO which I keep for my English beers. The cost of hops in highly hopped beers is now almost half the cost of the grain. Need to get some chinook and amarillo rhizomes and grow my own.