All Taste The Same.

[Banjo]

G'day Folks, Banjo here!
I'm new too the forum and also too homebrewin.
So far i have made 10 or more batches of beer of different types. (All the Coopers kits, VB, Morgans etc)
All the beers i have made seem to taste the same, whether it's hopped or not, exept for a couple of dark ales (Coopers and Tooheys old).
The beers seem to be watery, and have a fruity/cidery taste, that my mate descibed as tasting like homebrew.
The head on the beer varies from bottle too bottle, and even if it has a good head, it dos'nt last long.
I have only made 1 batch of beer with suger, the rest have been 50/50 dex/malt.
The bottles I use are the old 800ml VB ones, that seem to be thicker than the new 750ml.
I take the time too clean the bottles and the fermenter properly, so i dont think infection is an issue.
The beer is drinkable, but could be heaps better.
I am just about too put down a Czech Pilsener, hopped with Saaz, but I'm not planning on wasting this one!
Any advice is most welcome.

Cheers Banjo

 

[manticle]

Many ways to improve your beer.

The first two most important ones will be consistent temperature in the right range and cleanliness/sanitation.

Following that, using a fresh packet of yeast like Safale US05 and fresh kit tins with fresh malt will help.

What temperature are you fermenting at?

Are you sanitising as well as cleaning and if so, what are you using?

 

[felten]

Whats your fermentation temperature like? Fermenting at high temp, like whats suggested on the cans, will cause the fruity and cidery tastes like you're describing.

18-20c is a good place to ferment most ales, keeping the temperature stable is good too, you don't want large temp swings.

[edit] I'm slow >_<

 

[yum beer]

Hey Banjo,

sounds to me that you are fermenting at too high a temp. that will give cidery tastes everytime and possibly why all your brews taste the same.Thats the 'homebrew' taste



You need to brew at around 18 degrees for ales...most kits come with an ale yeast even the lagers...Coopers Euro is an exception...
If you want to get an improvement get your temps right, use a fridge or water bath if needed.


Also make sure your beers are aging enough after bottling...I find most kits beers take at least 2 months to really develop....3 months even better.



Take some time and read up on here, ask questions if not sure about how to do things....A little knowledge will make a big difference, and when you start
to get it right you will make fantastic beers. :beer:

 

[Nevalicious]

Banjo, as others have said, fermentation temperatures need to be in the correct range and without fluctuation. Ditching the kit yeast is the next thing I would do as for all intents and purposes, it's shit and will result in average at best beer. Apart from the above and what others have said re: sanitation (what exactly do you use to sanitise (have you heard of starsan?)) maybe try steeping of specialty grains. Along with small hop additions and ditching the kit yeast, the additions of proper amounts of specialty grain were some of the best ways I achieved decent kit beers...

Nev

 

[Nick JD]

It's very difficult to make instant-beer-in-a-can taste like beer that's not instant. It can be done, and it can be coaxed to taste very, very nice ... but removing all those "homebrew" signatures is (IMHO) more difficult than making beer from barley and hops. I've found even the worst barley and hops beers can outcompete the best kit beers.

Question is: are you willing to put in a bit of time and effort to make your beer taste better than bought beer? It's doable...

 

[parrja]

1. Time - When I was doing kit and kilo I always waited 12 weeks before drinking. Before then it always tasted a cydery and thin. After 12 weeks it sometimes tasted quite reasonable.
2. Temperature - as other have said a stable 18-20 degrees for ales is required. The damage is done temperature wise quite quickly so don't pitch at 26 thinking it'll be fine as temp will drop to 20 overnight. Pitch between 18-20 and keep it there.

I did a can of blackrock IPA + kilo of malt + hops recently was kept at 18 degrees and then filtered - was drinkable out of the fermenter and not one hint of "homebrew taste" and it is still getting better. So yes a good beer can be done this way for less than an hours work.

 

[stux]

Remove the kit and kilo from the equation and try a fresh wort kit

Sanitation
Temperature Control
Good Yeast practices
Adequate fermentation time

Once you master those steps you will be making great beer

If you want to then take it a step further, get into all grain via BIAB for pure recipe control

 

[loikar]

Remove the kit and kilo from the equation and try a fresh wort kit

Sanitation
Temperature Control
Good Yeast practices
Adequate fermentation time

Once you master those steps you will be making great beer

If you want to then take it a step further, get into all grain via BIAB for pure recipe control

+1
Best answer from the entire thread.

Throw your can opener away and have a crack at making beer.

 

[eamonnfoley]

Remove the kit and kilo from the equation and try a fresh wort kit

Sanitation
Temperature Control
Good Yeast practices
Adequate fermentation time

Once you master those steps you will be making great beer

If you want to then take it a step further, get into all grain via BIAB for pure recipe control

One more thing just as important as above - water. If its full of chlorine or chloramines you are buggered no matter what you do. Try campden tablets or filter it. And if its very alkaline, you will struggle regardless and probably need distilled or spring water.

 

[loikar]

One more thing just as important as above - water. If its full of chlorine or chloramines you are buggered no matter what you do. Try campden tablets or filter it. And if its very alkaline, you will struggle regardless and probably need distilled or spring water.

Bullshit. Why even mention this to a new brewer?
The Guys from Sydney, the water will be fine for whatever he's brewing.
Unless the guy is loading up his fermenters from the pool, there's no reason to fill his head with needless shit like this.

The Guy is new to HB.
He's probably come from drinking Tooheys, Heinekin, Hahn etc.
He is tasting the Home brew 'twang' that comes with opening a can of goop and adding water and sugar, or the brewers equivelent of 'international roast' coffee.
He will either quit brewing or he will learn to hide it with a shitload of hops and specialty malts and convince himself that his beer is awesome.

Then he will go to All Grain and realise that he's been full of his own shit the whole time.


Banjo,

Grab a Fresh Wort Kit from your home brew shop and start there. You might pay a little more, but your beer will be a whole lot better anything that comes in a can.

Cheers,

BeerFingers

 

[eamonnfoley]

Bullshit. Why even mention this to a new brewer?
The Guys from Sydney, the water will be fine for whatever he's brewing.
Unless the guy is loading up his fermenters from the pool, there's no reason to fill his head with needless shit like this.

The Guy is new to HB.
He's probably come from drinking Tooheys, Heinekin, Hahn etc.
He is tasting the Home brew 'twang' that comes with opening a can of goop and adding water and sugar, or the brewers equivelent of 'international roast' coffee.
He will either quit brewing or he will learn to hide it with a shitload of hops and specialty malts and convince himself that his beer is awesome.

Then he will go to All Grain and realise that he's been full of his own shit the whole time.


Banjo,

Grab a Fresh Wort Kit from your home brew shop and start there. You might pay a little more, but your beer will be a whole lot better anything that comes in a can.

Cheers,

BeerFingers

Maybe Sydney is ok, and he wont have a problem. But try doing the same in some parts of Perth where the tap water reeks of chlorine. A campden tablet in your brewing water certainly can't hurt no matter where you are.

No need for the aggressive response.

 

[loikar]

Maybe Sydney is ok, and he wont have a problem. But try doing the same in some parts of Perth where the tap water reeks of chlorine.

No need for the aggressive response.

Right, but the OP is in Sydney not Perth.

This now renders both your posts null and void.

 

[glassgrenade]

I didn't make too many malt extract brews for this very reason. When i was doing extracts the ingredients available to me were quite basic. There's only so many ways that you can put together light malt, dark malt and dextrose. I played around with different yeasts and hops and this did introduce a variety of flavours, but these flavours were always built on that same base of malt extract and dextrose. I tried a minimash and was so pleased i went to a double batch 3V all grain system. However i've since converted to BIAB. 138L of beer in the same amount of time as it used to take me to make 46L, why wouldn't I?! :beer:

Back on topic, something that you could try if you don't want to buy a whole heap of equipment is a minimash in a 20L pot. I just went and grabbed my first brew book and found this recipe for you, its the recipe i was talking about above that convinced me to go all grain.

You need
1.7kg coopers cervesa (throw away the yeast!) or some other light coloured coopers kit

Grain (buy them crushed from craftbrewer)
1.5kg munich I
200g of wheat malt (this will sort out your head retention)
200g of sugar
20g of amber malt (sub for 100g of med crystal if you can't get this)

Hops
15g of cascade or amarillo or galaxy or Bsaaz or EKG In my recipe i used cascade.


IN the 20L pot add half full of water. Bring to around 72C. Add a grain bag (just a piece of swiss voille material, i used an old sheet) and put in your grain giving it a good stir. The temp should be above 63 but below 68. Soak for an hour at this temp. Pull out grain after and hour.

Starting boiling it. Boil for 50mins. Throw in 15g of cascade or amarillo and boil for another 10mins. Turn off heat and add coopers kit.

Meanwhile your sanitised fermenter is half full of really cold water. Add the stuff from the pot and top up to 23L. Hopefully the temp will be below 25C. If so throw in some US05 and ferment @ 18C. If not throw it in the fridge and add yeast as soon as its below 25C. You want to get it to 18C as quickly as possible otherwise you'll get that flavour people call the 'hombrew' flavour.

Using some grain is about the only way that i can see of introdcing some new flavours into your beer, without it that malt base is always going to be the same. Even soaking a little crystal will make a huge difference. If it were i'd be doing an order through craftbrewer for some starsan and some grain. Then get one of those temp controllers off ebay (STC1000) and a bar fridge. You'll be making geat tasting beer in no time mate.

 

[eamonnfoley]

Right, but the OP is in Sydney not Perth.

This now renders both your posts null and void.

Gees - somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning! I still stand by the fact a campden tablet in your brewing water (if your not filtering) is a good idea (insurance policy against chlorine). Surely you can't claim to have intimate knowledge of the water supplies across the whole Sydney metropolitan area.

Anyway, I'll leave this one alone now, so no need to take another shot at me.

 

[Braumoasta]

Right, but the OP is in Sydney not Perth.

This now renders both your posts null and void.

Ease up buddy. The guy has just offered a suggestion from his personal experience, no need to get so fired up.

 

[loikar]

Gees - somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning! I still stand by the fact a campden tablet in your brewing water (if your not filtering) is a good idea (insurance policy against chlorine). Surely you can't claim to have intimate knowledge of the water supplies across the whole Sydney metropolitan area.

Anyway, I'll leave this one alone now, so no need to take another shot at me.

Nope, woke up feeling great.
You can stand by whatever fact you like, im not disputing the benefits of a campden tablet, im disputing the relevance of your post's in this thread.
but to somewhat take you out of the equation since you're feeling a little bit sensitive

let's make it a hypothetical then.....kinda

So a new brewer comes along and is keen to make beer but is using extract.
He post's on a brewing forum stating that he's a new brewer and is having flavour issues.

Along come a bunch of guys keen to help out but want to spew a whole pile of data about water chemistry an array of additives, telling him to start steeping grains and spouting a barrage of shit that the new brewer knows nothing about.
New brewer is overwhelmed with irrelevant shit that confuses him and thinks to himself 'too hard' and stops brewing.

The bunch of guys are happy because they get to spew their 'knowledge of brewing' (AKA reciting someone else's post) to not just the OP but anyone else that reads the thread and believe they have contributed to the brewing community.
But they have bewildered someone who was keen to brew and originally started the thread, but due to the bullshit, has now put it in the too hard basket.

So, To the OP who started this thread to source information:

Tins of goop will taste like shit.
You can add hops and steep grains to hide the shitty goop twang but it will never be as you imagine.

Throw away your can opener and buy a Fresh Wort Kit. This is essentially an All Grain beer that has not been fermented.
All you need to do is top it up with water and throw in some yeast.
very similar to cans, only it tastes a shitload better.

Once you get the fermenting process down, then you can look at dry hopping and adding differen't flavours through malts and yeast.
Once you get steeping grains down, it's only a small step to All Grain where you can make the beer you imagine.

Cheers,

BF

 

[loikar]

Ease up buddy. The guy has just offered a suggestion from his personal experience, no need to get so fired up.

Who's fired up?

The suggestion was irrelevant to the thread and did not have anything to do with OP.

Cheers,

BF

 

[Silo Ted]

One more thing just as important as above - water. If its full of chlorine or chloramines you are buggered no matter what you do. Try campden tablets or filter it. And if its very alkaline, you will struggle regardless and probably need distilled or spring water.

Bullshit. Why even mention this to a new brewer?

Exactly ! WTF is that sort of information for a new brewer doing kits ? There's a dozen aspects he should focus on, and water profile isn't one of them.

 

[Braumoasta]

Tins of goop will taste like shit.
You can add hops and steep grains to hide the shitty goop twang but it will never be as you imagine.

All of my beers have been brewed from kits and they have all come out as I imagined. To my palate the beer has tasted fine, and to me is better than most reasonably priced commercial beers which I can buy. You might not like the taste of kit beers, but I don't care, I'm not brewing for you. Many people brew with kits and love the results, so to make such generalisations is ridiculous.