Aging Co2 Bottle - Advice Please

[pyrosx]

Been homebrewing (and lurking) for a while now... and recently made the decision to stop washing bloody bottles and start kegging.

So last week, I scored a whole kegging setup from ebay. The fridge, kegs, taps and connections are quite old, but look fine - nothing a good soak, scrub and rinse didn't fix.... brand new lines and robert's my father's brother.

But the gas bottle... well, it looks a little worse for wear. It's a huge 9kg job, weighs a tonne - no dents, but it has some surface rust. I was told by the seller that he hasn't used any of the rig in about 6 years - so it's at least that old... who knows how long he had it before that though.

Around the neck, it has a black plastic tag that says "2005", and another tag underneath that that says "do no use if this tag is warped by heat" (it isn't warped by heat).

So, i'm after advice on what I should do with it. Just use it (and pray)? Is there a test I can do to see if it's any good (like checking regulator readings etc.) Or is there somewhere I could take it to have it checked? Or should I be running away from it at full speed lest it asplodes?

Cheers :icon_chickcheers:

 

[Tanga]

Yup. Most fire extinguisher refill places can do pressure testing when you get it filled, just ask around. Just out of curiosity is it the one I saw? An hour west of Melbourne? If so I can't help you with names, but they should be around, just Google.

 

[pyrosx]

fire extinguisher refill

Wow... it hadn't even occurred to me that it is basically a fire extinguisher in disguise!

Quick google, and it looks like there's a place almost next door to me! Sweet.

Many thanks!

(But nope, not in Melbourne... Sydney.... and it was possibly 2 or 3 weeks ago that it was bought from ebay, it's taken me a while to pick it up and even longer to get time to look it over and think about using it.)

 

[bill_gill85]

Not completely sure, but the only bottles I've seen with black temperature tags were rental bottles. If there is a label on the bottle with either BOC or Air Liquide, you're out of luck & only the owner will fill the bottle. Might be best to take a photo of the neck of the bottle.

 

[pyrosx]

Not completely sure, but the only bottles I've seen with black temperature tags were rental bottles. If there is a label on the bottle with either BOC or Air Liquide, you're out of luck & only the owner will fill the bottle. Might be best to take a photo of the neck of the bottle.

I've had another look, and there is a label on it - it's Air Liquide (fairly sure anyway, it's tucked away in a dark/awkward corner right now)

Looks just like this one (though this isn't mine, I saw it in the eBay V5 thread)
http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showim...,0&format=0

Does this mean the bottle is stolen?

 

[insane_rosenberg]

Is it safe?

My current rental bottle has it's oldest date stamp from 1947. But it also has plenty of newer ones

As Tanga said, just get it tested.

 

[poppa joe]

If it is Air Liquide......Rental is DUE....
You will be liable for the back rent if you want it......
You bought a Lemon....
Use the Gas ....Give it back to the fella you got it from..
He is ..or ...someone is liable for the rental...
looks like it has not been paid for a Long While...
Not worth it...
Cheers
PJ

 

[komodo]

Pfft forget about the bottle rental use the gas then call them up tell them you recently bought the property and found the bottle under the house and you have no idea what to do with it - playing a bit dumb might help too. You can bet your arse they'll be more happy to have the bottle back than worrying about charging you back rent.

We recently moved factories and the old owner of our new factory was in the same industry. We found some old rental bottles that had been completely forgotten about burried behind a heap of crap. We just called the gas company they belonged to (who we incidentally don't even deal with) and told them we had some bottles we'd found - they were very pleased to say the least and came and collected the bottles within a few days.
My advice would be to use the gas then call the company the belong to rather than taking it straight to a depot. A depot might not be as understanding as someone calling and telling them you've "found" a bottle.

 

[pyrosx]

Great ideas Komodo, thanks! Playing dumb can come naturally for me - especially after I've had a few

Rewinding slightly - am I wasting my time ringing a fire extinguisher place for testing? Do Air Liquide use different connections or something along those lines, or is it more of an agreement kind of thing?

 

[Wimmig]

Great ideas Komodo, thanks! Playing dumb can come naturally for me - especially after I've had a few

Rewinding slightly - am I wasting my time ringing a fire extinguisher place for testing? Do Air Liquide use different connections or something along those lines, or is it more of an agreement kind of thing?

Hmmm. Are the Air Liquide bottles stamped on the neck or cap as such? Or is it just a sticker? If it's just a sticker...surely just getting rid of it and hitting the filler would be fine? Wouldn't it?

 

[poppa joe]

The Bottle belongs to Air Liquide.....Nobody will look at it....
>>>>>>>>RENTAL IS OVERDUE>>>>>>>>
Ditch it or take the risk.....
There is a new system going now with Rental Bottles....
Acting stupid won't help..they only want their money..
Believe me i have been in this situation.
I have been renting bottles for 45 yrs.
Cheers
PJ

 

[poppa joe]

I have a gas bottle i own....but can only get it filled at one place.
Forgot to add Fire Ext. places wont look at BOC or Air Liquide..
Unless they are agents.
Gas is a locked area......
Take Komodos advice..or ..mine use the gas and ditch it.
You may get an unfriendly agent to give it back to...
And you could be liable....Beleive me..
PJ

 

[komodo]

Hence my suggestion to call them first - dont tell them who you are just say you have a bottle you've stumbled across. If they give you grief just take it to their depot out of hours and dump it out the front. They're not going to track you down.

Don't go trying to get it tested the tester will tell you to take it to the supplier - gas places do all testing in house. Again dont go trying to get it filled. Use the gas in it and cut your loses and buy or rent a new bottle when the time comes.

Air Liquide I believe is part of Wesfarmers along with Coregas

 

[pyrosx]

It's working fine... no holes in the laundry wall or anything What's the "high pressure" side of the regulator "supposed" to read at about 20 degrees?

I checked the ebay item description:
"CO2 Gas Bottle 9kg (tavern gas) food grade. This is owned and approx full."

It's bloody old - is it possible it was bought before they stopped selling them?

 

[michael_aussie]

there is a better way to handle this... but it will take a little time .. and balls.

Go to AirLiquide.
Hire a bottle the same size as your bottle for a short term rental .. 2 weeks??

You will pay $100 for the gas, and a couple of bucks for the rental.

Clean up your bottle.

Take your bottle back to another AirLiquide branch, .. or even better get a mate to do this .. then they can play completely dumb...... and tell the branch you hired a bottle for a bucks party and are returning it... an you want to off hire it.

They will sign it off.
As far as they are concerned .. you have hired a bottle and returned a bottle so you own them nothing.

You now have a full bottle rent free.

 

[poppa joe]

Michael Aussie..
Dont work that way anymore as i said NEW System..3 Mths Rental..
That little ring around it will follow back to you once the test period is on...
If it is Owned.....All my advice goes down the drain....It has a test date
Air Liquide is the only person you should be talking to now..
PJ

 

[krusty_oz]

I remember reading something about 'by the day' rentals from BOC when I last got gas so they may still do it.
An idea (first checking if this is legal where you live, performed an job safety analysis, etc) is to organise you own refill day.
Buy something like this http://www.aquascapedesign.com.au/products...Refill-Set.html (no affiliation)
Then hire a FE (22kg) or a GE (30kg) size (the E means it has a liquid dip tube) cylinder of CO2, get a bunch of people over and fill them up following instructions given on the link.
I just logged into my BOC account (no great trade pricing for me) - a 22kg cylinder of CO2 $51+gst and a 30kg is $67+gst. Rental would go on top of that, say $20 for a month. With places charging $30 a fill for a tiny 2.6kg bottle you would not need many people to buy in to pay for it.

 

[Brewman_]

Sounds like you should just use the gas you have and then think about what to do next?

Either start up a rental contract or buy a bottle and go that way.

Poppa Joe,
I don't see how you can be held liable for any other dude's gas bottle hire. The person that sold the gear does not own the bottle, therefore they can not sell it. The company that owns that bottle has a commercial agreeement with the person whom it is rented to. If the person whom it is rented to "loses" that bottle that is between the gas company and the person that signed for the agreement, not the dude that bought the Home brew gear. You can't buy the gas bottle or transfer ownership of the rental without agreement from the owner of the bottle. The person who rented the bottle is always responsible for the bottle, and yes they will prosecute you, as far as I understand the person who is on the "agreement".

Having said all that *****, I don't think the bottle can be filled anywhere.

Fear_n_loath