Ag To Partial Lme Conversion Ratio

[Steve]

Hey - quick question that Jayse answered the other day on another forum but I lost it through a load of spam nonsense. When looking at an AG recipe (as below - thanks the AndrewQLD for borrowing it). To make a partial recipe from an AG recipe for every 1kg of grain you take out you add 700gms of LME. Is that right?

4.50 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1Grain 97.8 %
0.10 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SGrain 2.2 %
40.00 gm Tettnang [3.90%] (60 min) Hops 17.7 IBU
15.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00%] (15 min)Hops 3.4 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029) [SYeast-Ale

So with the above example I would need:

***3.50 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1Grain 97.8 %***
0.10 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SGrain 2.2 %
***700 gms LME - or would you just use 1kg and say bugger it***
40.00 gm Tettnang [3.90%] (60 min) Hops 17.7 IBU
15.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00%] (15 min)Hops 3.4 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029) [SYeast-Ale

At the moment I can only mash 4kg with 10 litres of water at a real squeeze. Am I on the right track? Or have I totally got no idea and I should go back to the KKKlub?
Cheers
Steve

 

[MHB]

I have been told that it takes 1.3 Kg of malt to make 1 kg of LME so I would say you were on the right track.

MHB

 

[Steve]

I have been told that it takes 1.3 Kg of malt to make 1 kg of LME so I would say you were on the right track.

MHB

Thanks MHB. I remember being given a link about 12 months ago to a 50 page word doc, but just couldnt be bothered reading it all.

Anyone else care to comment?
Cheers
Steve

 

[laurent]

I have been told that it takes 1.3 Kg of malt to make 1 kg of LME so I would say you were on the right track.

MHB

Thanks MHB. I remember being given a link about 12 months ago to a 50 page word doc, but just couldnt be bothered reading it all.

Anyone else care to comment?
Cheers
Steve

Hi Steve,

from what I've seen on the internet, the general consensus seems to be these factor numbers:
Grain to Dry: x .67
Grain to Liquid: x .75
Liquid to Dry: x .89

I think having come accross the doc you are refering to a while ago. Essentially, it says that some speciality malts need to be mashed and if you plan to use them, you should keep a min of base malt to bring enough enzymes.

Seems to work so far :super:

Can anybody else comment on these figures?

Cheers,
Laurent

 

[Steve]

Cheers Laurent for that.

I found it:

http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/extract/pres.pdf

If you want to replace 1 kilo of malt you need

340gms liquid malt
303gms dry malt

EG: to replace 2kg grain with liquid

2 x 340gms = 680 gms

Cheers
Steve

 

[laurent]

Cheers Laurent for that.

I found it:

http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/extract/pres.pdf

If you want to replace 1 kilo of malt you need

340gms liquid malt
303gms dry malt

EG: to replace 2kg grain with liquid

2 x 340gms = 680 gms

Cheers
Steve

Hi Steve,

680gr seems low. Are you sure of these numbers? <_<

I would have said instead:
to replace 2kg grain with liquid
2 x .75 = 1.5kg LME

Besides, the morgans master blend lager LME seems to confirm this. As it takes 1.35 kg of grains for each kg of LME.

Laurent

 

[Steve]

Cheers Laurent for that.

I found it:

http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/extract/pres.pdf

If you want to replace 1 kilo of malt you need

340gms liquid malt
303gms dry malt

EG: to replace 2kg grain with liquid

2 x 340gms = 680 gms

Cheers
Steve

Hi Steve,

680gr seems low. Are you sure of these numbers? <_<

I would have said instead:
to replace 2kg grain with liquid
2 x .75 = 1.5kg LME

Besides, the morgans master blend lager LME seems to confirm this. As it takes 1.35 kg of grains for each kg of LME.

Laurent

Aww crap - I dunno - I think im just confusing myself. This is from page 8 of that word doc. I just converted pounds to kilos:

For the question of converting grain to extract, there is a short and a long answer. The short answer,
based on typical all-grain processes and extract characte ristics, is to use 3/4 (0.75) lb of liquid extract
for each pound of grain being substituted, or 2/3 (0.67) lb dry extract. Now technically that means
that it takes more liquid extract to equal dry extract, but in practice, you can use one conversio n
factor or the other, even if you plan to mix dry and liquid extracts. My suggestion is to convert the
entire amount of grain to liquid extract, subtract off whole canfuls (3.3 lb / 1.5 kg increments), and
convert the remainder to dry extract. You can convert liquid extract to dry by multiplying by 0.89,
or dry to liquid by multiplying by 1.1.
For example, if you are converting 6 lb of pale ale malt to extract, you would need 6 x 0.75 = 4.5 lb
of liquid extract. Since youre buying a 3.3 lb can of extract, this leaves 1.2 lb to make up. Rather
than using part of another 3.3 lb can (and wasting the rest), you can use 1.2 lb of dry extract. To be
precise, youd actually only need 1 lb dry extract (multiply the remaining 1.2 lb of liquid extrac t
required by 0.89 to convert liquid to dry). Try it both ways and see.

I should stick with K&Ks

 

[Steve]

Any mathmaticians care to help? I seem to recall this is where I got to 12 months ago and thought stuff it - its all too hard :angry: im sure its very simple but I just cant get me head around it. C'mon chaps. Thanks Laurent.
Cheers
Steve

 

[laurent]

Cheers Laurent for that.

I found it:

http://home.elp.rr.com/brewbeer/extract/pres.pdf

If you want to replace 1 kilo of malt you need

340gms liquid malt
303gms dry malt

EG: to replace 2kg grain with liquid

2 x 340gms = 680 gms

Cheers
Steve

Hi Steve,

680gr seems low. Are you sure of these numbers? <_<

I would have said instead:
to replace 2kg grain with liquid
2 x .75 = 1.5kg LME

Besides, the morgans master blend lager LME seems to confirm this. As it takes 1.35 kg of grains for each kg of LME.

Laurent

Aww crap - I dunno - I think im just confusing myself. This is from page 8 of that word doc. I just converted pounds to kilos:

For the question of converting grain to extract, there is a short and a long answer. The short answer,
based on typical all-grain processes and extract characte ristics, is to use 3/4 (0.75) lb of liquid extract
for each pound of grain being substituted, or 2/3 (0.67) lb dry extract. Now technically that means
that it takes more liquid extract to equal dry extract, but in practice, you can use one conversio n
factor or the other, even if you plan to mix dry and liquid extracts. My suggestion is to convert the
entire amount of grain to liquid extract, subtract off “whole canfuls” (3.3 lb / 1.5 kg increments), and
convert the remainder to dry extract. You can convert liquid extract to dry by multiplying by 0.89,
or dry to liquid by multiplying by 1.1.
For example, if you are converting 6 lb of pale ale malt to extract, you would need 6 x 0.75 = 4.5 lb
of liquid extract. Since you’re buying a 3.3 lb can of extract, this leaves 1.2 lb to make up. Rather
than using part of another 3.3 lb can (and wasting the rest), you can use 1.2 lb of dry extract. To be
precise, you’d actually only need 1 lb dry extract (multiply the remaining 1.2 lb of liquid extrac t
required by 0.89 to convert liquid to dry). Try it both ways and see.

I should stick with K&Ks

Must be the residual alcohol from the week end

The beauty of factor numbers is that the unit used does not matter.

if in lb:
1lb x .75 = .75lb

if in kg:
1kg x .75 = .75kg

The important is to use the same unit before and after the '=' sign... When I think that NASA lost a satellite due to wrong unit convertions, it makes me wanna grab another beer...

Cheers,
Laurent

 

[laurent]

I should stick with K&Ks

So in England, they call it K&2.2Lb's ? :lol:

 

[laurent]

So in England, they call it K&2.2Lb's ? :lol:

Hi All,

Hope to have upset no one with my silly jokes. Must be due to France being in the semi-finals of the world cup...
The euphoria won't last, at most 4 years.

Bye,
Laurent

 

[Steve]

Thanks Laurent - I didnt know about the units staying the same with factors. It makes sense now.
Cheers
Steve

 

[DrewCarey82]

I am skipping this thread from now on just confusing the shit out of me.

 

[laurent]

Hi,

In the attachement, there is a small web page doing the conversion automatically. Fill any field and press "tab" or "enter" to complete the rest.

Enjoy,
Laurent

View attachment convert_malt.html

 

[Trough Lolly]

Ok...if we're not going too technical here, you'll find .75kg of LME is fine to substitute in lieu of a kilo of base malt. The Schwartz article is a good starting point, but it can be confusing in the first couple of reads...
But all he's saying is when you're using LME, you use 75% by weight of the original base malt and if you use the more concentrated DME, you use 67% by weight of the original base malt grain bill.

Scwartz's Rough Rule of Thumb - for each kilo of base malt you replace, you use 750g of LME or 670g of DME.

Cheers,
TL

 

[Steve]

Ok...if we're not going too technical here, you'll find .75kg of LME is fine to substitute in lieu of a kilo of base malt. The Schwartz article is a good starting point, but it can be confusing in the first couple of reads...
But all he's saying is when you're using LME, you use 75% by weight of the original base malt and if you use the more concentrated DME, you use 67% by weight of the original base malt grain bill.

Scwartz's Rough Rule of Thumb - for each kilo of base malt you replace, you use 750g of LME or 670g of DME.

Cheers,
TL

phewww - got there in the end. I am now going to give the Koelsch a go at the start of the thread. Cheers to all - piece of the proverbial pish!
Steve