Ag Setup

[DJR]

Hey all

Just thinking about putting together a cheap AG setup and have been trying to get as much info as possible. I have a setup in mind that will be fairly cheap, just wanted to get people's ideas on it.

HLT - i have a 13L stainless stockpot already, that i could use to boil hot water on either the wok burner inside, a camp stove or a new dual/triple ring burner (below). I guess i'd heat the water, pour it into something smaller (so i don't splash too heavily) and then use that for mashing/sparging in lots. I figure this is just under what is needed for mashing say 5kg of grain, but i could use the boiler to do the mash water heating and then use the 13L pot in 3 sparge batches. (assuming 3:1 ratio for water:grain mash and then 1.5:1 for sparge:mash water - 15L first up and then 22.5L)

Mash tun - i was thinking a large Handy Pail from bunnings, you know the ones, the foodgrade HDPE pails, with some brass fittings and a stainless braid manifold in it. Then i'd double-sided tape some cheap foil and camping mats around it.

Boiler - a 80L or so Robinox Ally stockpot - about $110 and then some brass fittings, valves, foodgrade washers etc and a bit of drilling to make an outlet.

Burner - 2/3 ring rambo burner - RB30/RB40 - about $40. This would be used in a simple setup where the boiler was on bricks and the burner sits on a block of wood or on tiles.

Ideally i'd use the boiler off the burner to collect the wort (with the HLT on the burner for heating the sparge water) and then swap them over. I know it's going to be damn heavy and really double batches aren't that important to me so maybe i should just get a 40/50L stockpot. I can't imagine the whole cost of the setup being more than $250, which definitely has a high Wife Acceptance Factor! B)

What does everyone reckon? Would this make a decent setup?

 

[Borret]

DJR,

I can only vouch for the Mash tun side of it and say it will be fine volume wise. It's what the borretmaid is based on and works fine. The volume of those buckets is about 22.5L as oposed to the 20L that is marked on them so you can actually get close to 6.5kg of grain in without too much hassle. I have to sparge 3 times with mine.

The rest sounds OK in theory from what I can see. There are many ways to skin the cat......

Brent

 

[DJR]

Thanks...

That's good.... don't know if i'd drill 1800 holes though

 

[T.D.]

An 80L kettle is pretty big when you only have a 13L HLT. If you are getting a big one so you can slowly upgrade the rest of your system (including the HLT) later, then no worries. But why not buy a 40-50L pot and then when you upgrade down the track, just use that as your new HLT and get a big pot (~80L) for a new kettle. That way you save money now by buying a smaller kettle, and you are half way to an upgrade when you decide to do it down the track.

You can also find good deals on 30-40L eskys if you keep your eyes out. You may find you don't need to pay that much more for an esky than the Bunnings option, and you will be able to use it for decent batch sizes.

If you batch sparge (which I presume you plan to do since you are going the s/s braid option) the 13L pot as an HLT will do just fine for now - just do two sparges.

13L pot for HLT: $0
40L esky: <$50
50L ali stock pot: ~$70 (see here)
Braids, valves, fittings: ~$50
Total: less than $170

 

[Tony M]

I was wandering thru Woollies the other day and they had 19 litre stockpots for about $20.00. One of those would give a bit more water and save some stuffing around. If you drilled a hole in the side, another twenty bucks would see a ball valve and fittings attached which would make your water handling that much easier. Even tho my HLT is 65L, I only heat up about 15L for the mash (its quicker) then heat the lauter water during the mash.

 

[DJR]

But why not buy a 40-50L pot and then when you upgrade down the track, just use that as your new HLT and get a big pot (~80L) for a new kettle. That way you save money now by buying a smaller kettle, and you are half way to an upgrade when you decide to do it down the track.

[post="129941"][/post]​

Nice one - hadn't thought of that! That Ken's place is down the road from my work too so i might go down there and pick up a 50L for $70 - good deal!

AG here i come - as long as i can get this one past the wife

 

[T.D.]

But why not buy a 40-50L pot and then when you upgrade down the track, just use that as your new HLT and get a big pot (~80L) for a new kettle. That way you save money now by buying a smaller kettle, and you are half way to an upgrade when you decide to do it down the track.

[post="129941"][/post]​

Nice one - hadn't thought of that! That Ken's place is down the road from my work too so i might go down there and pick up a 50L for $70 - good deal!

AG here i come - as long as i can get this one past the wife

[post="129979"][/post]​

Give them a ring first because I think they are basically an online business - in fact they may not even have a store front. A mate of mine has bought stuff from them before (which included a 50L ali pot funnily enough!) and they are a good company - trustworthy etc.

 

[DJR]

Well it's almost all done - the handy pail and some brass fittings and stainless braid for the tun and kettle was all about $70, i ordered a 40L ally pot today, and picked up a 30MJ 3 ring burner for $45. So this is all good. The fittings i bought for the pail i should be able to use for an esky too if i upgrade.

Just gotta get myself a cheapo 21mm drill bit, the holesaws and arbors were mega expensive! Then i'm in business.

Thanks everyone for the good advice! Now to free up some bottles....

 

[T.D.]

Good work DJR!

I think you have gone about your expansion to AG in just about the perfect way - minimal cost, but all stuff you can use if/when you decide to upgrade. :super:

 

[DJR]

Well first AG was done using the equipment. Haven't worked out exact efficiency (probably about 70%) but seemed to all work fine. Put down 20.5L into a jerry for no-chilling and bunged it in the fridge when it got down to a reasonable temp. It's going to be a german-style pilsner using WLP800 (!) since i bought the tube a while ago and didn't have enough Saaz to make a real czech pilsner.

A 6mm starting hole then a 20mm cheap unibit and a round file was perfect for making a hole in the Robinox ally pot, went through it really well with a bit of WD40 lube. Used some fiber washers and way too much threadseal to make a weldless fitting.

Only problem i seemed to have was that the wort was fairly cloudy, even after recirculating about 10L of wort - i think this is because my stainless manifold isn't right on the bottom of the mashtun or the manifold is too long. Might have to revise the system. It only loses about 4C over an hour though. Just had to do a 1L 90C addition to keep the mash temp up in the 65C range.

Thanks to everybody for the advice and the cheap price on the Ally stockpot. Ken's took a little while to deliver but came thru with the goods.

 

[normell]

Well first AG was done using the equipment. Haven't worked out exact efficiency (probably about 75%) but seemed to all work fine. Put down 20.5L into a jerry for no-chilling and bunged it in the fridge when it got down to a reasonable temp. It's going to be a german-style pilsner using WLP800 (!) since i bought the tube a while ago and didn't have enough Saaz to make a real czech pilsner.

A 6mm starting hole then a 20mm cheap unibit and a round file was perfect for making a hole in the Robinox ally pot, went through it really well with a bit of WD40 lube. Used some fiber washers and way too much threadseal to make a weldless fitting.

Only problem i seemed to have was that the wort was fairly cloudy, even after recirculating about 10L of wort - i think this is because my stainless manifold isn't right on the bottom of the mashtun or the manifold is too long. Might have to revise the system. It only loses about 4C over an hour though. Just had to do a 1L 90C addition to keep the mash temp up in the 65C range.

Thanks to everybody for the advice and the cheap price on the Ally stockpot. Ken's took a little while to deliver but came thru with the goods.


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Hey DJR Put the pics underneath each other, too wide like that

 

[pint of lager]

Well done on your cheap ag setup. You could try adding another layer of camping mattress to the insulation of the mashtun. To insulate mine, I used a cardboard sleeve with a gap in it slipped over the bucket with the gap jammed with recycled bubblewrap.

Anyone contemplating a similar venture should keep the following in mind.

Something to mash in, any insulated vessel will do, even a saucepan in a cardboard box with extra crumpled newspaper as insulation.

Something to sparge in. Cheesecloth pegged over/in a bucket fermenter with some rolled up metal mesh to keep it from off the bottom of the fermenter. Somebody else on the board used an old pillowcase.

Something to boil in. This is where most people need some sort of upgrade. Two decent sized saucepans can usually fit on a stove. Do watch out for boil overs.

Something to chill in. The laundry tub filled with water works for this. Chilling your wort means that you can have the yeast pitched on the same day as your brew. Using basic equipment with no tap from the boiler rules out the no chill method.

Running a very cheap setup allows you to explore the world of ag before comitting to more expensive options. Although it is very rare for an person who has brewed ag to go back to extract.

 

[apd]

Using basic equipment with no tap from the boiler rules out the no chill method.

What about syphoning (with silicon hose to handle >80*C liquid) from the boiler to no-chill vessel? Or even leaving the wort in the boiler until it's cooled?

May not be ideal but still possible with basic equipment.

 

[pint of lager]

Yes, siphoning hot would work, but then you need a syphon that will work at that temp. The common syphons available at the hbs bend. Pistolpatch posted a picture of his warped syphon.

The simplest quickest way is to use the dunk in laundry tub method. Change the water a few times, don't splash around the lid and you will be ready to pitch in an hour.

Leaving the saucepan(s) to cool slowly would work too.

There is a heap of good info in the "no chill" thread. However, for the newer brewer there are also many traps in the method, and chilling sooner is a better method for them.

New brewers need to know that decent brews can be made with very rudimentary equipment with not a valve, pump or refractometer to be seen. You need to mash, boil and chill. It is the same for a 5 litre partial mash or a 5,000 litre brew. The pumps, brewstands, valves, Nasa burners, refractometers and other bits of gear make the brewday smoother and quicker but are not needed.

 

[Ross]

The pumps, brewstands, valves, Nasa burners, refractometers and other bits of gear make the brewday smoother and quicker but are not needed.

Shhhhh... My missus might hear you

cheers Ross

 

[Voosher]

The simplest quickest way is to use the dunk in laundry tub method. Change the water a few times, don't splash around the lid and you will be ready to pitch in an hour.

This is basically the method I use.
The only thing I make sure of is good sterilisation of the kettle lid with boiling water. As it's not on during the boil it's a potential problem. The lid helps with potential splashing problems as well.

 

[DJR]

Just some updates on the setup.

The first batch run which i had pictures of worked out to be about 65% efficiency. A bit low but good to start. The batch is still in the fridge lagering away so no proof of a good/bad batch just yet. Two weekends ago i did an APA using it - and i stuffed it up. Basically i cut the ss braid manifold because i thought it was too long, and ended up sticking the sparge no matter what. So to cut a long story short i sparged in a hopsock, and got about 52% efficiency (!) which i was not at all happy with. But it still tastes OK and i had a lot of grain and some corn in there anyway so it won't be a light beer

I spent a little bit at Reese getting some 1/2 copper pipe, comp fittings, SS hose clamps and a new bit of braid and doing a loop style manifold that uses a copper T-piece going into a bent piece of copper. Tested with water and it all syphons great with about half a litre of deadspace.

Did a batch today, a Bohemian Pilsner, using a single decoction. Got about 72-75% efficiency, can't be sure just yet. So i am very pleased about that. :chug:

If i did it again, i'd go straight to a plumbing supplies shop and get the bits from there, much easier than bunnings and you should be able to get SS fittings - then again we don't all drive Mercedes do we.

 

[AndrewQLD]

DJR, if you are doing a decoction mash already your doing great, 70%+ is good efficiency regardless of how you brew, and repeatability is the most important factor to begin with. Just keep experimenting with your setup, using the same basic ingredients and you will be able to pin down the best equipement and methods thats suit how you want to brew.
Let us know how the beer tastes

Cheers
Andrew

 

[DJR]

The first batch run which i had pictures of worked out to be about 65% efficiency. A bit low but good to start. The batch is still in the fridge lagering away so no proof of a good/bad batch just yet. Two weekends ago i did an APA using it - and i stuffed it up. Basically i cut the ss braid manifold because i thought it was too long, and ended up sticking the sparge no matter what. So to cut a long story short i sparged in a hopsock, and got about 52% efficiency (!) which i was not at all happy with. But it still tastes OK and i had a lot of grain and some corn in there anyway so it won't be a light beer

I spent a little bit at Reese getting some 1/2 copper pipe, comp fittings, SS hose clamps and a new bit of braid and doing a loop style manifold that uses a copper T-piece going into a bent piece of copper. Tested with water and it all syphons great with about half a litre of deadspace.

Did a batch today, a Bohemian Pilsner, using a single decoction. Got about 72-75% efficiency, can't be sure just yet. So i am very pleased about that. :chug:

If i did it again, i'd go straight to a plumbing supplies shop and get the bits from there, much easier than bunnings and you should be able to get SS fittings - then again we don't all drive Mercedes do we.

Just as an update, the APA i described above in my "brewday from hell" post picked up 2nd in the NSW comps, can't have been that bad!

The Boh Pils unfortunately i over carbonated, and now i've done another 6 or 7 batches using my kit with no more issues! :super:

I would definitely recommend anyone who is starting out in AG and wants to start up quickly and easily (without resorting to BIAB), with a method that consistently can achieve 75-82% efficiency to give this a go. An esky would make it a little better, as would a slightly larger tun. If you look around you can use a bigger handy pail or a 30L pail fermenter though.