Ag Seems Expensive,am I Missing Something

[Howlingdog]

As I read somewhere - "Homebrewers will go to any expense to make cheap beer".

 

[sav]

This was the argument I had with the wife when I said I was going to all grain to get rid of the kits I was doing kits double the malt and finishing hops and I was still buying coopers pale ale because the beer I was making was still average.

After a few ags under your belt you will start accumulating Hops grain spare yeast etc.The quality of the beer is second to none and I prefer to drink the beers that I make than what I would buy.

But there is cost of brewery equipment even if you BIAB there is a cost so in the end its a great hobby and even if it costs triple I would do it because its a hobby that I love and the rewards is beer that I made from scratch.


sav

 

[Bribie G]

There's always the All Grain price shock desensitisation syndrome to take into account as well (the AGPSDS)
It usually runs along these lines, each stage happening faster and faster:

• How I wish I could afford an urn
• Wow it's tax rebate time, I might just sneak that urn in
• I love my urn but bigger batches would be better, I'll buy another one
• In two weeks time
• Woot - hey Neville has RO water systems on special only $250 - grab one of those suckers
• And a mill
• And a kegerator
• Make that a three tap font
• Four sacks of grain for less than $200? hey count me into the bulk buy guys make that five sacks
• Dear Ellerslie hop please send my your latest catalogue and advise cost of posting ten kilos of hops
• Ten kegs? God how can I manage with such a small number - gotta have another 4 before Friday or I'll freak. Think of all the money I'll save.

B)

Slippery slippery slope.

Edit: Ask PaulH, he'll concur:

 

[DU99]

TO ABOVE
Then minister of finance will wonder where you have been for 4-5hrs..and whats that wonderful smell..smell of malt :icon_drool2: and hops

 

[geoff_tewierik]

No way that's Pauls setup! Man barely has time for this website, apart from his really stale jokes, how's he find the time to brew that many beers?

 

[Tanga]

whoooa guys, read the posts properly, i "SAID i thought ag would work out cheaper than my K&K, NOT COMMERCIAL BOUGHT BEER, HOW THE HELL DID YOU READ THAT IN MY POST,if we are throwing prices around then it costs me about 80 cents a litre not $5 a glass, but i get what you are all saying and i agree its cheaper than buying commercial but thats not what i was comparing it too. if it costs me more thats fine as well because from what you AG guys are saying is its like chalk and cheese between K&K AND AG,i hope its going to be worth the effort, as i said my kits and bits that i make turn out very drinkable and i am looking forward to the next step.
cheers

fergi

Don't worry Fergi. I don't think this thread is about that any more. I think it's morphed into a 'why AG rocks' thread. I must say this thread is making me think.

 

[bignath]

All this has inspired me to get a mill from the states and bulk buy everything... Sick of buying each recipe as I go. Even at $1/L it's still not bad. But money's money. If I can bet the same results for less then why not?

Do it mate, you won't look back. I got mine pretty cheap, and the cost savings alone from buying bulk meant that after i finished my first sack of grain, i had made my money back on the mill.

VB 750ml single bottle approx $4.50 -$5.00..and thats on special...

And it's VB.....

 

[drew9242]

I found from where i live if i made K&K that it was more expensive then AG. For me the basic tin was not good enough. So i had to buy bits and pieces to add and before i knew it i was spending $40-$50 a 22L brew. Now my cheapest lawnmower beer which my mates love to drink costs less then 20buks.

Grain 4.5kg = $9
Rice .5kg = $2
Hops = $1.50 (12g of Northern Brewer)
Yeast = $2.00
Gas = $5.00
Total = $19.50

And best thing about this beer it is surprisingly yummy. But this is not the only good cheap recipe out there, the oppurtunitys are endless, that is the beauty of AG.

 

[fcmcg]

whoooa guys, read the posts properly, i "SAID i thought ag would work out cheaper than my K&K, NOT COMMERCIAL BOUGHT BEER, HOW THE HELL DID YOU READ THAT IN MY POST,if we are throwing prices around then it costs me about 80 cents a litre not $5 a glass, but i get what you are all saying and i agree its cheaper than buying commercial but thats not what i was comparing it too. if it costs me more thats fine as well because from what you AG guys are saying is its like chalk and cheese between K&K AND AG,i hope its going to be worth the effort, as i said my kits and bits that i make turn out very drinkable and i am looking forward to the next step.
cheers

fergi

So to put this back on to your original topic , yes i think i did originally think ,that by going all grain, that it would work out cheaper than K&K...
Yes , i too was breing K&K beers for about fifty cents a glass....
AG for me seemed all to difficult , especially as i didn't want to muck it up....and i needed alot more gear besides a can opener and a fermenter...
But then i did my first AG ( after 10 years of kits ) and i have never wanted to brew anything else since...

I will say that yes , AG is now costing me a bit more than i thought it was going too...but then i am really into the hobby...and it is a hobby...

I WILL spend the extra money getting a liquid yeast if i'm making a special beer ( belg/cal common / kolsch etc)
To put it into perspective and use a Belgian beer as an example...

Yes you can buy a "belgian ale kit" and i did them and they were nice and they cost me a dollar a glass
But the reality is that the yeast was wrong ( kit supplied dry yeast that didn't impart any of the flavours of the style , so therefore the beer was not really a good example or true to style...especially when compared to a Belgian commercial beer...
Tthat's not to say that the Belgian's i AG brew do any better lol , but at least i know my mash temp's , i can use a proper yeast and grain from Belgium....
I guess at the end of the day , for me , it really isn't about the cost anymore...it's about making the best quality beer i can make , from scratch...
It is a hobby . You will always find people who want to make the cheapest possible beer that they can and i don't have a problem with that....i don't have to drink it ....
For me it is about enjoying the creative side of the whole thing , tinkering with my brewery , understanding yeasts , recipes etc....and making good quality beer that i cannot buy...
So if you want to make cheapish AG beer , do BIAB , use dry yeast and bottle your beer....but look out because once you've had for first AG , that you made , you will probably get on that slippery slope...and you may want toys...like me lol
3 tier brewery , 3 fridges , 3 beer taps , 12 kegs , kilo's of hops , stainleess bling etc etc
OR
If you just want to make really cheap beer...
Keep up with your current brewing and enjoy it for what it is....
Anyway...i hope i've stayed on topic and not gone into the AG is better than kits rant....
Good luck , whatever you decide to do !
Cheers
Ferg ( not Fergi !!!!!)

 

[Nick JD]

Apples and apples.

You get some half-mouldy, stale grain with a couple of clumps of ratshit in it and a thin layer of mold; mash it at a vastly unstable temperature starting at 70C dropping to 61C in an hour; boil it for 25 minutes adding some isohop at the end for 20 IBUs; ferment it with underpitched, old yeast at 24C; bottle it in slightly suspect bottles and drink it after only 5 days conditioning.

That's how to make AG beer comparible to K&K.

Much cheaper, and tasting about the same.

 

[flano]

I get one 25kg bag of base malt - JW trad.
Then get other smaller amounts of other grains as I go.

works out cheap.

 

[big78sam]

It's all been said above but my 2c are:

If you're looking at cost only, 1 coopers tin plus the kit yeast. Cheap as!!!

I buy my grain in bulk at around $40 for a 25kg bag so that's about $1.50 per KG, base malt a bit cheaper, specialty more expensive but is a much smaller percentage of the grain bill. This is around $7-10 for a basic batch. Hops between $5 to $20 depending on the brew. It can be done for as cheap as $15 for 23L. That is heaps cheaper than when I was doing kits and bits or extract

Yeast you need to provide regardless of whether it's K&B or AG (assuming you're not using the crap kit yeast)

Of course this is dependent on buying a mill but with the Aussie dollar as it is now it's doable for around $150. My mill was a great investment. There's now no need for me to drive to grain and grape for every batch I want to do. A couple of bags of base plus a selection of specialty malts and I'm set. I worked out the mill will pay for itself in savings in around a year.

IMHO, the real saving are bulk grain, bulk hops and using 1 smackpack of yeast for several brews.

 

[bignath]

My mill cost me $165 delivered from a forum member, but it was a new mill still in the plastic bag with instructions from Crankandstein.

A 25kg bag costs me $55 and i get six batches out of it.

Before my mill, i was spending around $30-$40 per recipe. I now spend $15 or so...

So half price brewing compared to before i had the mill means i save $15 minimum on brewing a batch.

6 X $15 savings = $90

So my mill is paid off after i got 2/3 the way through my second bag. Or, my 10th AG batch. Then you continue to save after that.

If i do say, 15-20 batches a year, and i am saving my $15 minimum per batch, then i have saved around $300 by buying a mill and getting bulk grain.

Sounds pretty good to me....

 

[Mikedub]

Don't worry Fergi. I don't think this thread is about that any more. I think it's morphed into a 'why AG rocks' thread. I must say this thread is making me think.

Why AG rocks

standing around the backyard on a hot Australia day with doz people enjoying your beer, saying things like "man this is awesome, how do you make it? ", you reply " i make it from scratch, grain, hops, yeast ", they say "you should sell this, yada yada, you say, "its not about money, man" :icon_cheers:

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Even without buying bulk grain, good beer can still be made cheap. From a site sponsor:

4kg Bairds Perle Malt (nice and malty, works in a variety of ales) x $3.50/kg (discount for >= 4kg) milled = $14.00
Nottingham Yeast $3.50 (and that's without reharvesting)
1/2 pack of Citra hops $4 - 15g at 40, 15 and 0 minutes = 45g (1/2x 90g).

Total cost (rounded up) $21.50.

Fantastically easy Pale Ale.

All I needed to start was the BIAB voile, 2 big w pots. Now have a mashtun from an esky I purchased cheap on ebay and converted.

Satisfaction from brewing a damn good beer, that everyone who tries it says "this is seriously good" is priceless.

Goomba

 

[fergi]

Apples and apples.

You get some half-mouldy, stale grain with a couple of clumps of ratshit in it and a thin layer of mold; mash it at a vastly unstable temperature starting at 70C dropping to 61C in an hour; boil it for 25 minutes adding some isohop at the end for 20 IBUs; ferment it with underpitched, old yeast at 24C; bottle it in slightly suspect bottles and drink it after only 5 days conditioning.

That's how to make AG beer comparible to K&K.

Much cheaper, and tasting about the same.

um no it wouldnt be as good as my k&k, i am not going to get into the bash about whats best, i KNOW AG is superior to kits, that is not what i posted , this thread is now getting completely off what the original post was about

fergi

 

[Nick JD]

That's not off topic at all, you just don't agree. Why are you being an :icon_offtopic: nazi?

 

[mh971]

um no it wouldnt be as good as my k&k, i am not going to get into the bash about whats best, i KNOW AG is superior to kits, that is not what i posted , this thread is now getting completely off what the original post was about

fergi

Ferg,

Just browsed this topic while drinking my fifth AG attempt, the first one I really took seriously. It's Tony's LCBA recipe.

I love Little Creatures Bright Ale but its $60 a carton. Dinking this I reckon I like Tony's recipe more and I still can't believe I can make this and it can be so good. Especially as I am a real hack, and don't take it all that seriously compared to most on here.

Either I just saved $90 or I am drinking much more high quality beer than I could afford to buy, either way is a massive win.

The process of all grain seems so much more natural than opening a can too.

 

[Tanga]

That's not off topic at all, you just don't agree. Why are you being an :icon_offtopic: nazi?

He's defending his post - don't be brat Nick.

Hey Fergi,

I know it's probably frustrating for you, but chances are most people in your thread haven't even read the initial topic you posted (yeah, totally frustrating). Don't sweat it - no-one's judging you and what you asked, they're just having a good time bragging about how good their AG is. =p

I'm a kit brewer, who's only started playing around with extra stuff. Congrats on going all grain, and I totally see where you're coming from being surprised that less processed is more expensive than highly processed (ie kits). It's counter-intuitive, but probably based on current transport costs. Extract (especially in the kits) is concentrated, so 2kg / brew vs 5 kg / brew. Also other market pressures - storage times, etc.

Hope this thread hasn't killed your buzz - it's a perfectly reasonable question. Don't worry about the tangents - it's what makes things interesting, and no-one will blame you for the randomness. They're having fun =).

 

[pbrosnan]

getting ready to try my first AG, but my calculations shows i need about 5kg of grain, approx , plus the hops, this seems to be around the 30 dollar mark for a 23 litre batch , plus the cost of gas and time involved, although i am anxious to try AG i thought it was supposed to work out cheaper than buying kits and bits. maybe i missing something here.

fergi

I would've thought that AG was more expensive than kits and bits but less expensive than buying beer of similar variety and quality. And of course it's a hobby so who cares how much it costs.