Ag Seems Expensive,am I Missing Something

[fergi]

getting ready to try my first AG, but my calculations shows i need about 5kg of grain, approx , plus the hops, this seems to be around the 30 dollar mark for a 23 litre batch , plus the cost of gas and time involved, although i am anxious to try AG i thought it was supposed to work out cheaper than buying kits and bits. maybe i missing something here.

fergi

 

[manticle]

Savings come when you buy grain in bulk, reharvest yeast, buy large stocks of hops rather than 90g bags etc.

However most of my extract brews easily hit the 30-50 dollar mark and I wasn't using liquid yeasts then.

You can save on gas by buying an immersion element (I have and use both gas and electric and love both for different reasons)

Compare to commercial beer of your choice.

Time is something I enjoy spending when I'm brewing. Once you've got your processes down and relax, it can be one of the most soothing things to do at home - like taking your time to cook something special.

 

[Steve@PMF82]

Dont let cost get in the way of a good beer.

I am only brewing small 8 - 10 L batches AG , i order my recipes as i go which is the most expensive way of doing it,
but i have to rely on post so i have limiting factors.

As Manticle said , learning to reuse liquid yeasts is a good start to saving money, and IMO improving your brews.
Get a foodsaver and buy bigger lots of hops, then store vac packed in freezer.

BUt after all is said and done, my brews still end up cheaper than if i had used extract (excepts kit and kilo).
I end up around 60c to $1 a 330ml beer, depending on many factors. This is still a lot cheaper than buying bottles of beer from the bottlo or club/pub
and its beer i really enjoy brewing and drinking.

 

[mxd]

as manticle says, plus if you have a search you'll see people talking about prices. The best and most appropriate comments is "we spend a lot of money to make cheap beer"

on average my APA 40 ltr is something like the following

10 kg grain ($20)
170g of hops ($5)
2 yeast dry ($9) I have slants so can be cheaper.
Gas ($4)

So around $1 a litre

But I have around $300 worth of ingredients (grain and hops) that could go bad

I'm not too sure if yo'll get cheaper than K+K, should be cheaper that extract, cheaper the a Brew on Premise place, as for kit and bit that depends on the bits you put in, i.e if you do a better yeast and hops then it probably will.

 

[Acasta]

Don't forget the quality of the product you produce! Its worth it, and definitely produces a higher quality of beer for you to enjoy. As manticle said, get in on bulk buys and in no time you be right. Enjoy!

 

[Gout]

i think when you sample your first AG beer you will forget the costs.

However as the guys say, buy in bulk and prices fall

 

[lczaban]

I would say the cost saving when doing AG comes with the beers you produce. If you are trying to produce megaswill then the prices of commercial vs K&K vs extract vs AG probably fluctuate, and you have to evaluate the quality of the final product against the price and time it takes to produce it. I think personally the cost saving comes into brewing more exotics beer clones and styles - you definitely get a better quality beer and have more control over the outcome when doing AG compared with other types of brewing, you get satisfaction over the creative control of making the beer yourself, and when compared with the commercial cost of brewing even a "mainstream" craft beer (think Squires/Matilda Bay/Little Creatures etc etc) vs the $50 - $80/carton price at the bottlo, the cost saving speaks for itself...

Cheers! :chug:

 

[Tanga]

I see you're in SA fergi (South Australia I presume - though I don't know where Hamley Bridge is). If you want to stick with the all grain I recommend going through Brew Adelaide (south) or Beer Belly (north) for your grain. Either of them can crush them for you and put them in recipe bags.

Much cheaper than going through your local homebrew store (I looked at the grain there once - yowzer!)

If you're sure you're going to stick with it then talk to them about a 25kg prebuy. I know Brew Adelaide do it - it's like having a tab on grain. You get the discounted (bulk) price for your grain that way (about 1/3 less through Brew Adelaide).

 

[Tony]

If AG cost twice what it costs, id still do it.

The beer is better than i can buy
ITs fun to make
I know whats in it
and my friends and family appreciate the beer and the work that goes into it

love it and forget the cost

 

[raven19]

If AG cost twice what it costs, id still do it.

The beer is better than i can buy
ITs fun to make
I know whats in it
and my friends and family appreciate the beer and the work that goes into it

love it and forget the cost

Well said Tony. +1

 

[fergi]

thanks for replies. i am not really complaining about the outlay i was more surprised at the cost compared to my kit and kilos,i like to think i make some nice k&k beers but i want to go the next step to see if AG is worth the extra effort.i am going to try something like a golden ale.
fergi

 

[Tony]

sounds awsome mate

have fun and enjoy every smell, sight, up, down and taste on your AG adventure

cheers :beerbang:

 

[manticle]

If AG cost twice what it costs, id still do it.

Me too. I'd have to eat less or buy less records or something but counting the cost is something I long ago gave away.

Buying in bulk has the advantage of saving money but the main reason I do it is so I have ingredients on hand to brew whatever I feel like that week.


Fergi - just have a crack. It's a lot of fun, even when the recipe/ferment doesn't work out. Best thing about AG is the complete freedom to brew anything you want. Research a historical regional style, tweak it to taste and you have beer you could never buy anywhere.

 

[Nick JD]

You can buy PoR and Cluster for under $30 a kg and all the awesome US hops for $30 or less a kg (+ postage, still half price). That's hops being an almost incidental cost. $30 a kg = $2.70 for 90g.

Grain in 25kg sacks is $55 for Aussie stuff. A few kg of nice German spec malts to tart your recipe up and you are making 20L for $10 if you reuse your yeast.

50c a liter. You can't buy water for that.

Sure, if you are making Belgian Dubbels then it's not 50c a liter ... but at $9 a stubbie for Chimay - still crazy cheap - and show me a good K&K Belgian Dubbel recipe.

Remember to compare K&K with a bland, badly-made Aussie lager AG, and even then it's not comparible.

 

[rangaz]

Just need to find the right place to get stuff from and buy in bulk
I pay
$2/kg for base malt (in 25kg bags), a little more for specialty (2-5kg bags) from TWOC
$20-30 per 500g for hops sourced locally and ordered from nikobrew in the US (they're selling cascade for $10/lb btw ). postage from US is about $13 for 3lb
and yeast I reuse so many times I don't even count it in the cost
about $5 for gas and $2 for CO2
total usually comes up around $1/L for me.

I've also started malting high grade barley from my family farm so grain no longer costs me anything but time and I've got a first year cascade plant starting to flower, but I do it for fun not cost savings.

 

[bignath]

I do 4kg grain bills (nothing too big i know..) gravity usually around 1.042, which means because i buy by the sack, my grain bill costs a paultry $8 per batch.
I typically do single malt beers at the moment. Have done more varied grain bills before but i'm liking the idea of isolating the single malt flavour of the grain to get a good idea on different hops.

Hops - i dunno, maybe adds a dollar to a brew....once again buy in bulk...

Yeast - $4 roughly a batch as i don't re-use yet. Would like to one day experiment with this...

total cost for a 20Lt batch is around $13-14. And it's kick ass beer. I've catered 40th birthdays with this beer with awesome reviews and requests for supplying beer to friends (which i've since turned down by the way.)

A typical can of goo (coopers) from a supermarket or LHBS will set you back $13 for an international series can, and the yeast is still shitty, with no flavour or aroma hops accounted for.

In my opinion, the more effort you put in to your brewday, by using fresh, bulk purchased ingredients, the cheaper it gets to brew.

The BEST thing i have bought for my brewery EVER has been a mill. Once i had that, it's easy to buy in bulk and save.

Nath

 

[Tony]

VB carton (9 liters) at $40 = $4.44 a liter

Schooner of VB at the pub @ $4.20 is $11.20 a liter (that makes me sick to be honest)

Bottle of Weihenstephaner Weisbier @ $5.50 for 500ml is $11 a liter

brew it yourself for $1 a liter

Where does the expensive bit come in again............ you lost me!

 

[bcp]

I remember getting the same surprise. It's counter-intuitive, because usually the more highly processed something is, the more you pay - so you expect bread to be more expensive than flour yeast and... whatever else it has. It doesn't work with a/g brewing because we buy small quantities.

Savings do come from -
* Buying base grains in bulk
* Buying hops in larger quantities (once you know what you use a lot of)
* Culturing yeasts (I use wyeast @$15/hit - so the occasional reculture is really worth it)

Benefits come from -
* Complete control of the product. You can produce any beer your way in a way that kits don't allow you.
* Freshness, particularly with hop flavour and aroma
* The love of the process

 

[bradsbrew]

VB carton (9 liters) at $40 = $4.44 a liter

Schooner of VB at the pub @ $4.20 is $11.20 a liter (that makes me sick to be honest)

Bottle of Weihenstephaner Weisbier @ $5.50 for 500ml is $11 a liter

brew it yourself for $1 a liter

Where does the expensive bit come in again............ you lost me!

Spot on Tony. On the rare occasion that I go to Dans or 1st choice and grab a couple of imported ESB's I leave the receipt on the kitchen bench so SWMBO sees it. At $8 for a 500ml bottle thats the best way to get myself more brewing time

 

[Steve@PMF82]

Spot on Tony. On the rare occasion that I go to Dans or 1st choice and grab a couple of imported ESB's I leave the receipt on the kitchen bench so SWMBO sees it. At $8 for a 500ml bottle thats the best way to get myself more brewing time

haha yes i like to take my mrs through dans sometimes and point out that this is cheap alcohol, but compared to my expensive ways of brewing its still truckloads cheaper than buying beers.

I went to the pub the other day for the first time in a long time and payed $4.70 for a schooner of VB, it was cold and pretty clean but pretty boring as well..