AG BIAB Saison recipe feedback .

[mongey]

so first 2 BIAB have gone pretty well. have some belle sasion so gonna do a simplish saison for my 3rd .Like saisons allot and have made extract versions a bunch of times .keen to try an AG one to measure up

Have taken a couple online AG saison recepies and messing with them in brewers friend app to get the numbers i want

any feedback from saison brewers ?

batch size- fermenter
20l

og 1054
fg 1010
23.59 IBU

fermentables 5kg total (if not Belgian whatever i can get )
4400g Belgian Pilsner
500g Belgian wheat
100g Belgian Cara Munich

mash - using 70% brew house efficiency , which I got just over last brew
66 for 90 mins

boil
magnum 15g 60 min
saaz 25 g 5 min

then no chill


one of the original recipes I stole from had flaked oats but I prefer it a little tart so think they may add too much body for what I want ?




feedback ?

 

[paulyman]

Hi mate,

The process looks good. I tend to go for a 60-40% split of pils/ale malt and wheat. I haven’t used Belle for years but the saison strains I use consistently go to sub 1.004, so keep that in mind.

 

[goatchop41]

I would say to piss of the caramunich and use actual munich or vienna malt. A saison is not the sort of beer that you want to be adding unfermentables in to, you want it dryyyyyy.
Speaking of dry, it should finish well below your expected 1.010. I would even be encouraging that by mashing as low as 62-63oC for 90 mins.
There may be purists in here who will agree, but I doubt that spending the extra $$ on Belgian malts will make a significant difference (in saying that, I wouldn't just go for bog standard JW pils, maybe something like Gladfield or Best Maltz)...

My personal ideal grain bill for saisons (which are a favourite of mine to brew) is something like 60-70% pils, 20-30% wheat malt, 10% vienna

 

[mongey]

Thanks guys. I’ll take it on board. I was suprised the app gave me 1010 with belle saison. I have used it in extract recepies like 9 times and the highest it has finished is 1008 and the others usually like 1004

 

[mongey]

I would say to piss of the caramunich and use actual munich or vienna malt. A saison is not the sort of beer that you want to be adding unfermentables in to, you want it dryyyyyy.
Speaking of dry, it should finish well below your expected 1.010. I would even be encouraging that by mashing as low as 62-63oC for 90 mins.
There may be purists in here who will agree, but I doubt that spending the extra $$ on Belgian malts will make a significant difference (in saying that, I wouldn't just go for bog standard JW pils, maybe something like Gladfield or Best Maltz)...

My personal ideal grain bill for saisons (which are a favourite of mine to brew) is something like 60-70% pils, 20-30% wheat malt, 10% vienna

gonna brew the saison this weekend .have lost the caramuncih and doing

70 pils
20 wheat
10 vienna

I'm doing full volume , no sprage .If mashing down at 63c what temp would I do a mash out at ?

 

[Indian Giver]

My last good'un was:

90% Pale Ale Malt
10% rice (mainly to mimic pilsnener and save a trip to the LHBS)

3724 for 2 weeks, when it stalled, finished off with Belle Saison.

Hopped to 20 IBU with Willamette.

I know Angus Grant did one that received rave reviews at the recent Q'ld swap (and it used only Belle Saison) - he might be worth hitting up.

 

[goatchop41]

gonna brew the saison this weekend .have lost the caramuncih and doing

70 pils
20 wheat
10 vienna

I'm doing full volume , no sprage .If mashing down at 63c what temp would I do a mash out at ?

You don't have to mash out...isn't that just to help with flow through the grain bed during a sparge. So without a sparge, you don't really need to do one

 

[captain crumpet]

You don't have to mash out...isn't that just to help with flow through the grain bed during a sparge. So without a sparge, you don't really need to do one

it increases efficiency for biab.

mash out between 76-78c for 10-15 minutes

 

[goatchop41]

it increases efficiency for biab.

mash out between 76-78c for 10-15 minutes

How so?
To my knowledge, a mash out doesn't change conversion/enzyme activity. If you're not sparging, then flow through the grain doesn't really matter either, so it won't affect how much of the remaining sugars that are 'rinsed' from the grain

 

[goatchop41]

P.S. Anecdotally, I would achieve 85-90% efficiency doing full volume/no sparge BIAB without a mash out (tried multiple times with a mash out and I personally found no discernible difference, at least from an efficiency side of things

 

[mongey]

How so?
To my knowledge, a mash out doesn't change conversion/enzyme activity. If you're not sparging, then flow through the grain doesn't really matter either, so it won't affect how much of the remaining sugars that are 'rinsed' from the grain

This is only my 3rd all grain so I am no expert , but I had also read it improves efficiency with BIAB as you get better run off when squeezing the bag at the end. but that may or may not be correct

 

[Ben Davies]

Raising mash temp to 75-78 c should kill enzymes therefore halting enzymatic activity. I hear the big boys do it to lock in OG once reached in mashing. I have do both nowadays i just heat sparge water to 75c not sure if it really matters what temp you sparge at. But sparge ph i think matters to reduce tanning extraction. But to me it makes sense that hot sparge waternshould free up trapped sugar in grain bed better than cold...

 

[mongey]

so to close the circle this is brewed , fermented and ready to be bottled this weekend

I stuck with the suggested

70 % pils
20 %wheat
10 % vienna

mashed 63 for 90 mins . and did a mash out at 75 .

60 min boil
20g magnum 60 min
25g saaz 5 min

fermented with 1 pack of belle Saison at 24 degrees

OG 1050 FG 1004 . a hair over 6% alc . tasting pretty damn good out of fermenter. has a nice dry ,saison funk

weighing up weather to cold crash a few days or not . I'm leaning towards not this time

all in all went well

 

[shacked]

No need to cold crash a saison! I'd say bottle it up and enjoy!

Also, I've found great results from repitching belle, so perhaps consider throwing a cup into another batch of wort. For example, I won the Belgian category of the ESB comp a few years ago with an 8% saison fermented at 32C+ with 7th generation belle.

 

[mongey]

No need to cold crash a saison! I'd say bottle it up and enjoy!

Also, I've found great results from repitching belle, so perhaps consider throwing a cup into another batch of wort. For example, I won the Belgian category of the ESB comp a few years ago with an 8% saison fermented at 32C+ with 7th generation belle.

hhmmm .I am planning my next brew day for Saturday and was planning to make a citra APA with plain old US05 . Now I'm thinking get extra grain and a saison IPA

 

[shacked]

hhmmm .I am planning my next brew day for Saturday and was planning to make a citra APA with plain old US05 . Now I'm thinking get extra grain and a saison IPA

I just kegged a 85% maris otter, 10% wheat, 5% light crystal: motueka "pale ale" cube that I fermented a little on the cold side with 3726 Farmhouse (basically a saison strain). Turned out great!! Even dry hopped it with more motueka!

Do a Belgian IPA with just pale, 5% to 10% cane sugar and a little light crystal (3% to 5%)! Just dial the bittering back slightly as it'll finish dry.

 

[mongey]

so final post script

I bottled this on Saturday and I thought it was done at 1004 where it was for a few days but 5 more days just sitting waiting for bottling day .it ended up 1001.

tasted great put of the fermenter .Looking forward to trying a carbed sample in a week or so. I have made a bunch of extract saison before that were good ,but they always tasted more saison like than Id say there were real saisons . This first AG effort actually tasted like a sasion so far . Might re brew on next beer