Ag 2row To ? Oatmeal

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freezkat

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LME if you have it.

cheers

Darren
There is a malt beverage called "Malta" by a food and beverage company from Mexico named Goya (and others). It is essentially unhopped force-carbed wort. ...aka Instant starter. Its priced under $2 per .33L bottle. I fermented a couple out and the result was like a cheap schwartzbier.
 

freezkat

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There is a malt beverage called "Malta" by a food and beverage company from Mexico named Goya (and others). It is essentially unhopped force-carbed wort. ...aka Instant starter. Its priced under $2 per .33L bottle. I fermented a couple out and the result was like a cheap schwartzbier.
Well I did it. I added 1 pound of rolled oats to the above 10 LB grain bill. My IG is 1.049. That is with no dex. I have 6.25 USG. How did I do?

I still absolutely hate this BIAB process. 11 LB of grain was very difficult to manage. 3+ hours by the stove...stupid. I felt like I was making porridge not beer. I wont do this ever again. Next time I'll make a MLT.
 

RdeVjun

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With that much rye I think you'd have a similar outcome regardless of the mashing method, even at low proportions it requires patience.
I'm still not sure if the rye was malted or not...
 

freezkat

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With that much rye I think you'd have a similar outcome regardless of the mashing method, even at low proportions it requires patience.
I'm still not sure if the rye was malted or not...
Pretty cool in the cellar. Ferment just started. A very thin krausen on top and a decent yeast smell. Likely this will take several weeks. Lagering...I understand now. :rolleyes:

I don't know if it is cheating...but I threw in one crushed Beano tab 4 days ago and another today.
 

freezkat

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Pretty cool in the cellar. Ferment just started. A very thin krausen on top and a decent yeast smell. Likely this will take several weeks. Lagering...I understand now. :rolleyes:

I don't know if it is cheating...but I threw in one crushed Beano tab 4 days ago and another today.
It started going good guns yesterday. What a crazy smell. Its like sweet roll dough. It has a warm silky aroma. The malt/grain aroma is nothing like the rye stout I made before. This is going to be very interesting.

When it is done fermenting, how do I test for leftover starches? Will a regular piece of paper a drop of beer and a drop of iodine work? I read that chalk can be used as a medium. I have heard that too much starch can be dangerous. It can breed some type of infection.
 

brettprevans

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Dude u have asolio of unmalted rye? Do the 100% cerial mash roggin!!!

Wheres maple when u need him
 

felten

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AFAIK no human pathogens will grow in a 3%+ alc beer.

Thought wild yeasts and bacteria would love to eat the starch.
 

pyrosx

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When it is done fermenting, how do I test for leftover starches? Will a regular piece of paper a drop of beer and a drop of iodine work?

Not sure what you're getting at there: Yeast don't eat starch, they eat sugars. Starch turns into sugars in the mash.... that's where an iodine test is useful. I dont see why or how an iodine test towards the end of a fermentation is of any use?
 

freezkat

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Not sure what you're getting at there: Yeast don't eat starch, they eat sugars. Starch turns into sugars in the mash.... that's where an iodine test is useful. I dont see why or how an iodine test towards the end of a fermentation is of any use?

I did mash the whole bill for 90 minutes. Lots of stirring for the first 30 minutes then pot the mash in the oven. Set as low as it could go. with the door slightly ajar. Per my digital thermo the temp stayed perfect. My sparge and strike were pretty aggressive and took a long time as well.

I am very curious how the raw rye will perform. I should have small scale experimented first. Too late now. I've heard of using 20% of raw wheat in a recipe. So why not rye? There has to be an easier process though. It's really spongy, like trying to sparge a bean-bag chair spongy.
 

katzke

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I am very curious how the raw rye will perform. I should have small scale experimented first. Too late now. I've heard of using 20% of raw wheat in a recipe. So why not rye? There has to be an easier process though. It's really spongy, like trying to sparge a bean-bag chair spongy.

Wits have 50% raw wheat in them. Not sure how much oat you put in. Oats are what get spongy Never brewed with rye, raw or malted.

Not sure why you put the beano in. From what I recall it will not convert the starches, only convert any unfermentable sugar and make a very dry beer (low gravity).
 

brettprevans

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I am very curious how the raw rye will perform. I should have small scale experimented first. Too late now. I've heard of using 20% of raw wheat in a recipe. So why not rye? There has to be an easier process though. It's really spongy, like trying to sparge a bean-bag chair spongy.
roggen is 100% malted rye (look at the link emnpaul posted).
plenty of beers have 20% maklted rye in them. after about 30% malted rye gets very very sticky. needs good temps to keep sugars/oils from getting gummy. love rye.

now unmalted rye I would expect (but cant confirm) to behave in a simialr way to unmalted wheat ie you have to do a cerial mash to get the conversion of starches/sugars. its more of a pain in the arse would could be fun.

palmers 'how to brew' says it should behave in the same way as other unmalted grain

some other useful links for you
link1
northern brewer forum - unmalted rye
homebrew talk - unmalted rye
http://www.canyoubrewit.com/forum/viewtopi...f=6&t=23995
 

freezkat

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I said before the rye was free. Funny on those above links, one poster said, unmalted rye wasn't readily available. (Hint...find a farmer or grain elevator.) I literally have an inexhaustible supply of raw rye. Finding ways to make use of it will hopefully save me some money. Bread is next. I will master raw rye, ah ha ha ha haaaaaa!!!

Isn't the cereal mash temp for raw rye is the same temp range as mashing 2row barley? My specialty grains were in the neighborhood as well. I just mixed it all together and added another 30 minutes to the mash.

Thank you all for the helpful info. I'll keep you posted.

Cheers
Bob
 

brettprevans

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Isn't the cereal mash temp for raw rye is the same temp range as mashing 2row barley? My specialty grains were in the neighborhood as well. I just mixed it all together and added another 30 minutes to the mash.
no not quite. you have to gelatinise the starches first then mash it. its basicly just some extra time and temp raising before you mash it with other grain.

here's a few links on cereal mash. luckily they are mostly USA sites so the names of ingrediants and processes should be the same for you.

http://www.winning-homebrew.com/cereal-mash.html
http://www.ingermann.com/cerealmash.html
 

freezkat

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no not quite. you have to gelatinise the starches first then mash it. its basicly just some extra time and temp raising before you mash it with other grain.

here's a few links on cereal mash. luckily they are mostly USA sites so the names of ingrediants and processes should be the same for you.

http://www.winning-homebrew.com/cereal-mash.html
http://www.ingermann.com/cerealmash.html

this from that first link. I have read this page before

If you want to do it the hard way, and for some the "fun" way, begin with whole rice or corn grits instead of flaked rice or flaked maize. A mash to gelatinize the grains usually isn't required for unmalted barley, wheat, or rye since the gelatization temperatures for these grains is within the same temperature range as the saccharification range of malted barley.
 

emnpaul

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Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it Freezkat. If in doubt about conversion of your rye, try the iodine test at 60min, 90 min etc. After a couple of brews you'll have it down pat.
 

freezkat

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Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on it Freezkat. If in doubt about conversion of your rye, try the iodine test at 60min, 90 min etc. After a couple of brews you'll have it down pat.
measured gravity. 1.015 at 58F (14.4C)

I could see ferment still going on. This is going to take a more than a couple weeks.

its at 4.46 ABV now.

I bet it will finish around 5 in a month or so
 

freezkat

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measured gravity. 1.015 at 58F (14.4C)

I could see ferment still going on. This is going to take a more than a couple weeks.

its at 4.46 ABV now.

I bet it will finish around 5 in a month or so
I just racked into a glass carboy. Pretty cloudy yet. gravity at 1.005 at 58F (14.4C)

Should I expect 5L of yeast cake? I used whirflock. Does that make that big of difference in sediment volume? Or do you think that was flour I made in my corona mill?

The beer has a nutty smell to it. Like walnut. wierd

Thanks for the advice

Cheers
Bob
 

freezkat

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Still too cloudy for my taste and a bunch of grain hulls still floating around so I ran it through a disc filter as I racked it into a corny. I just barely had enough beer to properly fill it. I tasted the run off from the filter.

I tasted grapefruit, Black Pepper, pistachio and caramel. Not in that order. It had a very bright flavor. I was expecting a muddy rotten flavor like the bannana in a Weissbier. Thankfully no, it was very fresh. I'll let it lager in the kegerator a little while longer.

The rye was a major pain in the arse. I'm glad I did it though.

Here's the recipe for a 23L. I lost a lost of volume in sediment. I had 29L in the primary. You more experienced AGgers likely can do this with greater efficiency.

Minnesota Rye

1.814Kg (4 LB) American 2-row
1.36Kg (3 LB) raw Minnesota Rye* (Smash the crap out

of it,but don't turn it into flour)
.45Kg (1lb) German Melanoid
.45Kg (1lb) American Cherry-wood Smoke
.45Kg (1lb) American Caramel 40L
.45Kg (1Lb) Oatmeal

30g (1oz) Columbus 60 minutes
30 (1oz) Galena 9 minutes

Brewferm Lager Yeast


*Cereal Mash temp for Rye is the same temp a mashing

2-Row. Throw it in with the rest of the grain bill

and extend mash to 90 minutes


Note: I added whirflock with the Galena and 4tsp of DAP yeast nutrient

FG 1.0018

Cheers to All and Thanks for the help.

Bob
 

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