A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

+1 on taking a few brews to get used to a system. I did that for stovetop BIAB and I did for ghetto Lauter Tun with an esky mash tun.

I think that for BIAB vs (my effectively a) 3V system (ghetto as it is) - the time is about the same, give or take half an hour (it can be longer with either).

Caveat on these is:

My BIAB is stovetop in 2 Big W pots (not the urn method), and I did sparge using a pasta insert into a 3rd 9L pot.

My current system (at the bottom of my sig) is mash in esky, lauter in ghetto lauter, boil on stove in two pots (splitting the initial runnings and the sparge runnings).

Both take around the same time. The time I wasted squeezing and sparging in BIAB is about equivalent to the lautering, manual recirc of the first runnings and sparging.

The big difference is that the current method is less backbreaking, less messy (a misdirected bag is never a pretty thing), more efficient and the runnings are way clearer, meaning a clearer beer.

Goomba

 

[Bribie G]

The thing that turns most people off BIAB when they first try it is the bag
Whilst BIAB is touted as the simplest and easiest way to start AG brewing - I believe that anyone going into full volume BIAB (we aren't talking about stovetop methods here) in an urn or keggle or 60L Blichmann pot or whatever should concentrate on the bag handling side of things before they even start.

Most BIAB guides tend to gloss over this aspect "Now you simply raise the bag, drain it and dispose of the spent grain". Yeah.

I recommend a sky hook with a pulley - my double pulley system cost less than $30, buying the bits from a market stall - as first choice. Otherwise find somewhere, anywhere, stable where you can safely hang it.
With full volume methods sparging is not necessary, I only sparge when I'm doing big beers over around 6%. My brew day with the pulley system is smooth as, there is never any danger of a hot wet bag getting out of control, and I'm able to very easily do things that esky mashers find difficult, such as mashouts and step mashes.

On LRGs point, if you are referring to clearer wort INTO the kettle producing clearer beer, this is a fallacy. Just anecdotally I wish I had ten bucks for every time someone at a beer club meeting says "hey Bribie, do you filter?".

 

[felten]

guy needs a bigger bag

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

On LRGs point, if you are referring to clearer wort INTO the kettle producing clearer beer, this is a fallacy. Just anecdotally I wish I had ten bucks for every time someone at a beer club meeting says "hey Bribie, do you filter?".

You're probably right. Especially if you no-chill - it's a moot point, because the break stays in the cube and the fermenter cops the clearer beer.

But..... I do end up with clearer beer in and out. It may be something concurrent with the change in methodology.

I've always chilled and have whirlpooled for the last 2 years, so it isn't this.

So I'm not espousing it as an absolute fact, just what I've found in moving to the ghetto-iest 3V system in humanity.

If I had a pulley and an urn, I'd be doing BIAB - just because it's a space-efficient, easy to operate and easy to store system and I still feel like a BIABer, even if I'm not.

But I have a stovetop and a tight budget, so if 2 x food grade buckets and a bit of dodgy DIY is enough for me to get good beer, I'll do that.

 

[Aces High]

The thing that turns most people off BIAB when they first try it is the bag
Whilst BIAB is touted as the simplest and easiest way to start AG brewing - I believe that anyone going into full volume BIAB (we aren't talking about stovetop methods here) in an urn or keggle or 60L Blichmann pot or whatever should concentrate on the bag handling side of things before they even start.

Most BIAB guides tend to gloss over this aspect "Now you simply raise the bag, drain it and dispose of the spent grain". Yeah.

I recommend a sky hook with a pulley - my double pulley system cost less than $30, buying the bits from a market stall - as first choice. Otherwise find somewhere, anywhere, stable where you can safely hang it.
With full volume methods sparging is not necessary, I only sparge when I'm doing big beers over around 6%. My brew day with the pulley system is smooth as, there is never any danger of a hot wet bag getting out of control, and I'm able to very easily do things that esky mashers find difficult, such as mashouts and step mashes.

On LRGs point, if you are referring to clearer wort INTO the kettle producing clearer beer, this is a fallacy. Just anecdotally I wish I had ten bucks for every time someone at a beer club meeting says "hey Bribie, do you filter?".

+1 on the skyhook, i dont know how i ever did the first ones without it. I now only do double batches with around 10kg of grain (dry) . I lift the bag via the skyhook with one hand and use the other hand to direct it over to the bucket and lower it, I hardly spill a drop. I've got a dedicated trolley for my 114L pot, so i just roll the whole thing outside once finished and hose it all down.

Its clean, easy, and 3 hours start to finish and i get clear beer, but now the obsession is overtaking me and Im building recirculating herms systems, metal pot inserts to get rid of the bag and all sorts of other things... Why am I trying to make this easy brewing method harder????

 

[Bribie G]

Now all you need is an Arduino

 

[PistolPatch]

Long time no see guys

guy needs a bigger bag

Yes, that was bit unfortunate :huh:. Probe thermometers aren't the most convenient thing either IMO. In fact, relying on a single instrument is something I never like to do as there are so many variances between instruments.

A quick 'BIAB' Update

Quite a few thousand hours have been spent behind the scenes at BIABrewer.info working on turning the original "The Calculator" into a 'real' bit of software with some really practical features that will be excellent for both BIAB and traditional brewers. It will probably take around another 6 months before you see anything unfortunately. The complexity of the software is far more than a simple spreadsheet can support though we did try .

Because of this I haven't had time to brew for 11 months so over Easter I didn't do any work on the "BIABacus". I brewed 6 double batches instead (3 sessions of 2 recipes done side 3 side totalling 240 L of beer). I also took lots of measurements as the more we get the better we can make the software.

Here's a few observations...

Efficiency: The grain bills ranged from 8.9 kg to 12.5 kg. The average of the pre and post-boil efficiencies were 80.6%, 85.3%, 85.9% 86.6%, 89.4% and 90.7%. I have a fairly fine bag and so just give a bit of a squeeze with gloves. These results help to confirm that we certainly get good efficiencies from BIAB.

Sparging: Of the 6 double batches, I sparged 3. The gain by sparging was 1%, 1.1% and 1.4%. (In fact, for the three non-sparged brews, I actually held 5 litres back as I couldn't fit it in the kettle. These 5 litres never contacted the grain.) Whilst I personally don't believe in figures from a small sample size and, I do regard this as a small sample size, I do feel that for now at least, if you can put all your brewing water in at the start then you are better off doing this especially with bigger batch sizes as sparging becomes a very clumsy PITA.

When your BIABing becomes clumsy or difficult, it's definitely time to see if you are making it more complicated than it should be. As the guys above have mentioned, a rope system really makes the whole process simple. Just leave it hang there while you wait for the boil. At the boil, a quick squeeze and dump.

Clumsiness is definitely not what BIAB is about.

:icon_cheers: PP

 

[kelbygreen]

so you are still doing BIAB??? is all your brews BIAB or do you prefer another method?? I aint trying to prove anything just good to see one of the originals and always wondered if they are still brewing like this and if there where any changes.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Long time no see guys

Yes, that was bit unfortunate :huh: . Probe thermometers aren't the most convenient thing either IMO. In fact, relying on a single instrument is something I never like to do as there are so many variances between instruments.

A quick 'BIAB' Update

Quite a few thousand hours have been spent behind the scenes at BIABrewer.info working on turning the original "The Calculator" into a 'real' bit of software with some really practical features that will be excellent for both BIAB and traditional brewers. It will probably take around another 6 months before you see anything unfortunately. The complexity of the software is far more than a simple spreadsheet can support though we did try .

Because of this I haven't had time to brew for 11 months so over Easter I didn't do any work on the "BIABacus". I brewed 6 double batches instead (3 sessions of 2 recipes done side 3 side totalling 240 L of beer). I also took lots of measurements as the more we get the better we can make the software.

Here's a few observations...

Efficiency: The grain bills ranged from 8.9 kg to 12.5 kg. The average of the pre and post-boil efficiencies were 80.6%, 85.3%, 85.9% 86.6%, 89.4% and 90.7%. I have a fairly fine bag and so just give a bit of a squeeze with gloves. These results help to confirm that we certainly get good efficiencies from BIAB.

Sparging: Of the 6 double batches, I sparged 3. The gain by sparging was 1%, 1.1% and 1.4%. (In fact, for the three non-sparged brews, I actually held 5 litres back as I couldn't fit it in the kettle. These 5 litres never contacted the grain.) Whilst I personally don't believe in figures from a small sample size and, I do regard this as a small sample size, I do feel that for now at least, if you can put all your brewing water in at the start then you are better off doing this especially with bigger batch sizes as sparging becomes a very clumsy PITA.

When your BIABing becomes clumsy or difficult, it's definitely time to see if you are making it more complicated than it should be. As the guys above have mentioned, a rope system really makes the whole process simple. Just leave it hang there while you wait for the boil. At the boil, a quick squeeze and dump.

Clumsiness is definitely not what BIAB is about.

:icon_cheers: PP

I am clumsy and I don't own a skyhook.

I don't find it difficult conceptually, but anything to counter my lack of co-ordination is a winner in my mind.

Honestly, if I'm shelling out for an urn - from a cost/analysis perspective, ghetto wins. To do BIAB with a "regular" kettle, I need gas.

So from a cost/analysis/equipment/brewer is unbelievably clumsy point (and useless with tools) of view, I'm happier with the system I have.

However, I love BIAB for getting me into AG, and if I go for an urn, and obtain a skyhook, I'm pretty sure I'll be doing BIAB again.

And totally respect that many BIABers (such as Bribie and PP) are better brewers than I am (and probably better co-ordinated).

Goomba

 

[Bribie G]

so you are still doing BIAB??? is all your brews BIAB or do you prefer another method?? I aint trying to prove anything just good to see one of the originals and always wondered if they are still brewing like this and if there where any changes.

Over the years I've observed that people going from BIAB to other systems usually do so for a certain reason, not ease or efficiency. The main reason often seems to be the ability to do double or triple batches.
There's also a desire for "reproducibility" of a favourite brew but I have no problems at all in producing a perfectly standard wort from brew to brew (My American Wheat for example) so I think this is a bit of a furphy. Some people have a mindset that BIAB is somehow a "seat of the pants, let's wing it and see where we end up" system. Not so.

If I start with a standard amount of strike water at a certain temp and certain mineral content, mash at a certain temp which I can calculate accurately knowing the weight and temperature of the grain etc. Then mash for an exact time, with steps if necessary, I'm going to get the same wort every time. I'd say that batch to batch fluctuations in grains would have far more effect on reproducibility than anything I'm doing.
Commercial breweries employ rooms full of techs to control this aspect, it's an important factor.

Also as in any hobby there are the techies who just love to get into their machine shop with their lathe and program their Arduino (one of these days I'll have to find out what one of those is ) but at the end of the day, BIAB or 3v or Herms is just one step in grain to brain, namely sweet wort production. You can produce identical worts from brew to brew but when you pitch and forget to switch on your fridge and remember with horror as you are sitting in the office, reproducibility has just flown the coop :lol:

 

[Deebo]

Tip: A Ladder leant up against a wall over your bag is a portable skyhook.

 

[DU99]

did anyone notice if there was false bottom..he run's the gas to bring up the heat wouldn't that run the risk of scorching the bag.

 

[felten]

Not sure what he had in his kettle. But when I'm heating the mash I will constantly stir it, no need for a FB in that case.

Tip: A Ladder leant up against a wall over your bag is a portable skyhook.

Ditto here, I've done this before when brewing outside, just open an A-frame ladder over the kettle and use that to help hoist the bag.

 

[PistolPatch]

As quickly as I can...

kelbygreen: I began batch-sparging and then BIAB'ed. (A bit of the history of BIAB can be found by reading the first two or three posts of this thread.) I now only BIAB. I now have two BIAB rigs so this lets me do two side by side brews with only two kettles and two burners. When I brew, I try and do something different in each kettle so I learn something and so as to get better figures on BIAB brewing. BIABrewer.info is where I mainly post now due to time constraints.

Lord Raja: Lol! I couldn't understand some bits of your last post but you should always post info on what makes you change systems as it help everyone else. For example, I'm not sure what your first BIAB system was - electric, gas etc. Also when you say that I or Bribie are probably better brewers than you, that is not right. There is no mystery to brewing great beer. The main thing is finding good recipes and not allowing subtle infections to slowly creep into your equipment. Clumsiness is perfectly okay .

Bribie_G: Totally agree with Bribie's comments bar one thing. It's a bit of a misconception that double-batches are hard to do with BIAB. All my brews (except experiments) are now always double batches. I actually used to do double batches without a pulley. Now I have one, I would never go back . Very nice post Bribie!

...

so you are still doing BIAB??? is all your brews BIAB or do you prefer another method?? I aint trying to prove anything just good to see one of the originals and always wondered if they are still brewing like this and if there where any changes.

Well, kelbygreen, it must be 6 years or so now and the only thing that has changed is that I am now totally confident in making claims about BIAB. I still try and gather figures and numbers but most of these now are not BIAB-dependent, they apply to traditional and BIAB all-grain methods.

The majority of my time now is spent not questioning BIAB but rather exploring ways in which all-grain brewing can be made easier for new brewers to understand.


Pat

 

[Brewman_]

Bribie_G: Totally agree with Bribie's comments bar one thing. It's a bit of a misconception that double-batches are hard to do with BIAB. All my brews (except experiments) are now always double batches. I actually used to do double batches without a pulley. Now I have one, I would never go back . Very nice post Bribie!

...


I have done many single batch BIAB without a pulley, but as part of going to double batch BIAB I also use a Pulley system. It makes the process so much easier and safer. I can now pull a 10Kg bag of wet grain out of the kettle with one hand, no strain at all.
Agree with Bribie and Pistol, a pulley system helps a lot.

Fear

 

[kelbygreen]

very well writing Pat. Now I dont bag BIAB I think its great, I could see things in a 3V that I thought made it more for me. Now I only done BIAB for a bit and never in a true form so cant comment on the side. The main changes for me (and was prob self inflicted on my BIAB rig) was, clearer wort, better efficiency, better control and more repeatability (havnt got to the last one yet but working my way there) now I am sure this can be done on BIAB.

My system is minimal effort I would say about the same as a BIAB rig but I gotto turn a few valves and hit a rocker switch for the pump. I do double batches so dont have to lift the grain out I scoop it out when the kettle is on its way to boil and tun is cleaned up usually before first hops go in.

BIAB is a great way to start and to brew. I always said even before I done a AG batch BIAB was not for me so maybe I got it into my mind set, maybe I couldnt see best of it but it was always a step for me. I will add that I prob am not making better beer but I am making the process easier and less hastle for me.

I dont flame any sort of brewing we all have our ways and what I think will be different to what you think and they will both be different to what the next person thinks but its this thats got brewing to this point I guess

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Lord Raja: Lol! I couldn't understand some bits of your last post but you should always post info on what makes you change systems as it help everyone else. For example, I'm not sure what your first BIAB system was - electric, gas etc. Also when you say that I or Bribie are probably better brewers than you, that is not right. There is no mystery to brewing great beer. The main thing is finding good recipes and not allowing subtle infections to slowly creep into your equipment. Clumsiness is perfectly okay .
[/quote]

Hey PP:

My current method is in my sig. My previous adjustment to BIAB (for my equipment/circumstances) - I posted in Nick_JD's thread (either the >$30 thread, or guide to all grain brewing on a stove). Both with pics and descriptions.

For the sake of posterity - my BIAB method was a 2 big w pot on the stove, 2 bags, a sparge method and very very cheap.

Yes, I made it harder by being stingy - but realistically, when one starts talking skyhooks and urns - and their cost outlay, I start getting nervous - especially getting the expense past the Minister of War, Finance and Saying No. Much easier and cheaper to get the ghetto system up and running (again, the use of existing home equipment, rather than buying new stuff).

As for recipes - currently using Tony's Monteith OA clone (smells great), but normally formulate my own recipes, and IMHO I have a bit of knack for formulating recipes. Absolutely anal about sanitising, no issues there.

Just can't nail down a BB recipe that I'm happy with. But I make a mean APA/AIPA.

The comment about you both being better brewers, is that you've done AG longer than me, have won comps and as a caveat to saying "this is what works for my, but other brewers do different and they are great brewers".

 

[Spinniker]

Hey guys,

Went to spotlight and all the had was a colored Swiss voile. Grabbed 2mtrs of it but has anyone used the cored stuff? Think there will be any problems?

I might put it into some boiling water for a while to see if the color leaches.

Thanks

 

[Diggs]

Got mine last night from Spotlight (QLD Everton Park) $8/m2

 

[QldKev]

Hey guys,

Went to spotlight and all the had was a colored Swiss voile. Grabbed 2mtrs of it but has anyone used the cored stuff? Think there will be any problems?

I might put it into some boiling water for a while to see if the color leaches.

Thanks

Get the pink stuff, you will be ok. (unless ya mates see you)