A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[bonj]

hehe, no worries TB.

My first system just kind of landed in my lap, so I went with the 3 vessel from the start, but I was actually gearing up to do BIAB. I like to keep an eye out on this thread, as I feel BIAB is a great innovation that should really appeal to beginners. Veterans can make up their own minds, but anything that helps newbies get started with less gear, and less outlay is great.

 

[seemax]

Well the results are in. My maiden BIAB began about a month ago with a Hefeweizen brew, mild hopped with Perle to 8IBU.

After 2 weeks in the bottle it tastes like beer, in fact a very decent beer. It was my first wheat beer and very much a departure from my last few brews. It's fresh, bubbly, sweet, subtle hopiness, a good session beer. Would be an instant hit in summer. It's been nice to alternate between this and last brew, an American IPA, the contrast is huge.

Next step will be to get some swiss voile material for a real bag and to find a decent way to insulate the pot (I have no lid). Must just mean I'll need to fire up the burner every 15mins instead.

Overall I'm a fan of BIAB and see it as a useful way to promote AG brewing without much investment. Having said that my 2nd hand esky, braided hose, pipes, etc cost me about $20 and my 36L kettle was all of $30, so overall it's been a cheap exercise.

My next project is a DIY grain mill...

Stef

 

[PistolPatch]

Firstly Congrats to you seemax and all those others who have started all-graining. Doing your first all-grain is a big thing and I wish there was a special place or thread that enabled more people to celebrate with you.

Not too long ago, people starting all-grain was a rare event and those brewers were really made proud. I was a recipient of this special attention and I'd love to see others receive exactly the same.

Secondly I really need some editors for the stuff that I write here and the stuff that I want to write for BIABrewer.info.

Just the other night, I spent four hours writing a post to this thread on correct gear for BIABers to use. This ended up being 3 A4 pages. Most of what I wrote was fine but by the time I finish writing I have no energy left to tidy up the, 'dags,'of what I write. These are always really bad dags and make what I write unpublishable or inappropriate! That post (still sitting here on my computer) is a prime example. I also have a very good and similiar sized article on efficiency. This is the one I have been promising for the last month or two. It has a lot of value but is very dis-jointed.

So, I think I have some good raw stuff to offer but getting things to even that stage (for me anyway) takes an extraordinary amount of time. Polishing them is a task that would be way too inefficient if entrusted to me. Giving the final approval should definitely be left to someone else!

Are there any of you who are prepared to spend some time (a lot actually) tidying up my messes? You'd have to be pretty passionate about accurate advice, dedicated and focussed methinks but this would leave me totally free to create other messes for you to clean up! It might also give me more time to credit the people I haven't had time to yet. One of these could be or is probably you!

If so, let me know please,
Pat

 

[Cocko]

I have read a lot of this thread but can not find the answer:

Can anyone help with; One source says to add grain and raise to mash temp WHILE another says to heat water to strike temp and add grain, so which one is it?

Any thoughts?

Cheers

 

[wambesi]

I have read a lot of this thread but can not find the answer:

Can anyone help with; One source says to add grain and raise to mash temp WHILE another says to heat water to strike temp and add grain, so which one is it?

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Hi Cocko,


Originally PP (as in the guide) had it as add the grain then raise to mash temp but has since realised it does not make much difference but was a pain.
Most people now heat water to strike temp then add grain.

Correct me if I am wrong everyone else, but thats how I am doing git now...

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

Spot on Wambesi, Its alot ezyer/safer too heat the water first .....Beats the hell out of burning your new baggie...

Cheers

 

[reviled]

Is everybody reaching mash out temps? I havent been bothering, just bringing it up to about 66-68 and taking the bag out...

What do you guys do?

 

[stowaway]

When reading a receipe.

If it says a hop is 60min boil. This means you boil it for 60mins in a hop sock and then remove.. correct?

when it says 0 min boil. do you chuck it in after the boil to stay in during the primary??

 

[Cocko]

Awesome cheers wambesi, FNQ and PP for your help.

Stowaway:
60 min: Yes, basically what you said. I don't use a hop sock just thro the pallets in...

0 min: Usually the recipe will say if 0 min is into wort or dry hopped into primary or secondary. To me 0 min means into wort at flame out... but please anyone correct me if I am wrong.

Cheers
Cocko

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I have read a lot of this thread but can not find the answer:

Can anyone help with; One source says to add grain and raise to mash temp WHILE another says to heat water to strike temp and add grain, so which one is it?

Any thoughts?

Cheers

PP and I were thinking about this very question on the weekend.Really nothing conclusive at this stage but we did do a step mash in Patch's Biab system. so it would seem to me that adding the grain and raising the temp would actually take you through a lot of the temp ranges conventional step mash does.Next thing to work out is how to remove the left over sugars in the grain bag, this would increase the Biab systems efficiency ?
GB

 

[sumo]

I have yet to do my first BIAB / AG (building my kettle ATM and learning the theory and science of AG) but am an avid reader of this thread and anything to do with AG brewing. So to test the water....

I would assume to remove the left over sugars would require some sort of "rinsing" of the grains in the bag, recirculating wort out of the kettle and rinsing over the grain bag may do the trick if you have some sort of "funnel / hopper" over the top of the kettle and under the bag.

If the kettle has a tap, then it would be easy enough to pour off X litres to rinse the grains with. (Using a pump etc is another option but $$$)

My concern would be extracting tannins, but the temperature of the wort should be low enough to exclude that concern.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Gryphon - see Spillsmostofit's patented "dunk sparge" - then you will push the BiaB efficiency up over 80% without a problem. But - it is extra mucking about and an extra vessel ... so it takes away from some of the BiaB good points.

I look at it like this - with a bog standard "as per the guide" BiaB, you get 70+% efficiency and its is very very easy and simple - if you want to go adding complexity and general hardness ... then there are all sorts of things you can do.

Between us Spills and I have done multi step mashes, step infusions, decoctions, cereal mashes - hell I even did a reverse step mash just to see what would happen. Spills has a pilot BiaB plant that he plans to rig up as a BiaB RIMS..... as complex as you want, or as simple as you can get.

Reviled - You need to remember that in BiaB the mash-out isn't just achieving what a mashout does in a normal mash-tun based brewery. In a normal brewery, the mash out step raises the mash to 76-78 degrees, then there is a rest and then the sparge step is commenced. The object of the mash-out is to de-nature the enzymes in the mash and to ensure that the whole grain bed is more evenly and quickly raised to sparging temperatures. And thats the key - in a normal brewery, no matter whether they do a mash-out or not - the grain bed is raised to around 78C during the sparge. This is needed to ensure that the sugars easily transfer out of the grain and into the liquid.

In BiaB - if you don't go to the mash-out step, you are effectively trying to sparge your grain at mash temperatures, and it doesn't work as well. Probably it is a bad thing for us to refer to the raising to 78 part of a BiaB mash as the "mash-out" step. We should refer to it as the "raise to sparge temp" step; that would be more accurate as well as encouraging people to do it.

Its one of those things that I was talking about in the previous bit of my post to Gryphon - you can keep it simple and pull your bag at mash temps, or you can add a step of complexity and raise the whole thing to mash-out. I think that its worth it to "raise to sparge temperature" seeing as you have to raise the whole lot to boiling temperature anyway - and it will earn you a good few percent extra efficiency on the way. But - I'm pretty sure lots of people don't bother, so its up to you. Try it both ways and see if what you get is worth the effort to you.

Cheers

Thirsty

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I have yet to do my first BIAB / AG (building my kettle ATM and learning the theory and science of AG) but am an avid reader of this thread and anything to do with AG brewing. So to test the water....

I would assume to remove the left over sugars would require some sort of "rinsing" of the grains in the bag, recirculating wort out of the kettle and rinsing over the grain bag may do the trick if you have some sort of "funnel / hopper" over the top of the kettle and under the bag.

If the kettle has a tap, then it would be easy enough to pour off X litres to rinse the grains with. (Using a pump etc is another option but $$$)

My concern would be extracting tannins, but the temperature of the wort should be low enough to exclude that concern.

Tannins would not be an issue to me, really to me its a more of a how to do it thing , with the least amount of equipment.Originally I was thinking dumping the bag in to another vessel and rinsing but then that means two vessels , so not really a good economical idea.
GB

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Its been suggested a couple of times, that the main Biab mash could be done at normal L:G ratios, then top up water added to to bring the volume up to full. If that top up water were added via the grain bag sitting in a colander on top of the kettle (Pat's idea for a draining device for those without skyhooks) .... that would be a fly sparge

The sparge water need only be the very hottest water you can get out of your tap, straight onto the grain via a hose. You would need to watch for tanins etc then though. It wouldn't be as "good" as a well run traditional fly sparge, but you'd for sure get pretty good efficiency. I guess mid 80's after a few tries and nailing down a solid method.

Too much trouble for me - an average 75% eff on my Biab brews is good enough for me. To each their own though.

TB

 

[reviled]

Id thought about trying something like dunk sparging but wasnt 100% sure and didnt have any info on it... Do you have a link for this? May seem like more effort, but would give me something to do while im waiting for my wort to come to the boil...

Reason I havent been raising to 78 or mash out is cos it takes years with my 2 burner without the lid on, so ive been skipping it cos I cant be assed stirring the mash for an hour to bring it up to 78... But this dunk sparging thing sounds interesting...

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

Post removed because I didnt read the next page....Doh

 

[trevc]

This is all just getting out of hand. Mods, can we move this to the new sub-forum?

 

[wambesi]

Yeh thanks for that trevc, now keeping this on track...

I raise it to "mashout temp" as we have called it, but I do it over the 10mins. I know it's probably not how some others do it and reading on thirsty's post I am going to look at spills's dunk sparge - I remember reading something about it a while ago.

I am trying something new each brew with the method, this time I adjusted the ph with citric acid and found I got a few extra points, now I am not too worried about efficiency as I am more than happy with these beers's over my kits but am always curious and adjusting to see what I can do.

Four brews down and hopefully another one or two next week while I have the week off.
Don't even have to keep the instructions/guides handy anymore

 

[PistolPatch]

This is all just getting out of hand. Mods, can we move this to the new sub-forum?

LOL Trev - love it!

BTW, Wambesi emailed me this morning and he loved your post too. He was actually a bit worried that he came across as narky because he was in a rush. Rest-assured he laughed as much as I did!

Now Trev, is it true you are going to become the first BIAB Brewer on a Boat!!!

Gotta love that!

 

[wambesi]

LOL Trev - love it!

BTW, Wambesi emailed me this morning and he loved your post too. He was actually a bit worried that he came across as narky because he was in a rush. Rest-assured he laughed as much as I did!

Now Trev, is it true you are going to become the first BIAB Brewer on a Boat!!!

Gotta love that!

Yeah maybe I should take after Pat and re-read and re-write many times before hitting that post button.
I didn't mean it to sound like that, I did actually re-phrase it once to change that!

Anyways, Pat. Sounds good about the writing thing, as I have said before more than happy to help out as much as I can.

And trev, do explain about this boat thing....BIABOAB? :huh: