A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[joecast]

well well well, count me in as a biab convert. had my busiest and smoothest brew day so far.

did a porter (part mash biab), and dropped that on to the yeast cake of another brew that i racked into secondary earlier this morning. everything went about as well as i could have expected. even my keg boiler didnt leak!!

things that made the day easy:

-silicon hose: why didnt i get some of this before. fit right over the tap on my plastic fermenter. easy to handle, easy to clean. good stuff all around.

-brewing in a bag: takes all the fuss of not having a gravity or pump brew stand out of the equation. swmbo sewed up a bag last night and it worked a treat. only had to hold under 2kg of grain, but that could easily be increased to 5+kg (maybe next time).

had to add some boiling water to the mash to hold temp, but that can be accounted for next time. was planning to have to add some to the fermenter to make up final volume which would have helped bring the temp down, but that shouldnt be an issue. its all bubbling away now about 22C hopefully down to 16C by morning, and 12 or 14 the day after.

anyway, just wanted to thank the guys for putting together the biab guide. makes mash brewing much more accessible. CHEERS!!!
joe

 

[Thirsty Boy]

well well well, count me in as a biab convert. had my busiest and smoothest brew day so far.

did a porter (part mash biab), and dropped that on to the yeast cake of another brew that i racked into secondary earlier this morning. everything went about as well as i could have expected. even my keg boiler didnt leak!!

things that made the day easy:

-silicon hose: why didnt i get some of this before. fit right over the tap on my plastic fermenter. easy to handle, easy to clean. good stuff all around.

-brewing in a bag: takes all the fuss of not having a gravity or pump brew stand out of the equation. swmbo sewed up a bag last night and it worked a treat. only had to hold under 2kg of grain, but that could easily be increased to 5+kg (maybe next time).

had to add some boiling water to the mash to hold temp, but that can be accounted for next time. was planning to have to add some to the fermenter to make up final volume which would have helped bring the temp down, but that shouldnt be an issue. its all bubbling away now about 22C hopefully down to 16C by morning, and 12 or 14 the day after.

anyway, just wanted to thank the guys for putting together the biab guide. makes mash brewing much more accessible. CHEERS!!!
joe

Nice one Joe.

Hope it tastes great for you. Gotta get me some of that silicon hose.

Chalk another convert up to the pistol man.

TB

 

[wabster]

well well well, count me in as a biab convert. had my busiest and smoothest brew day so far.


things that made the day easy:

-silicon hose: why didnt i get some of this before. fit right over the tap on my plastic fermenter. easy to handle, easy to clean. good stuff all around.

-brewing in a bag: takes all the fuss of not having a gravity or pump brew stand out of the equation. swmbo sewed up a bag last night and it worked a treat. only had to hold under 2kg of grain, but that could easily be increased to 5+kg (maybe next time).

Joe two questions if I may.

Is that the silicon hose from Bunnings? What size was it to fit the brew vessel tap?

I asked the wife to get some Swiss Voile (sp) at Spotlight at Rockdale but they are out of stock. What did you use, and what size piece did you start with?

I am really keen to get started on BIAB, Cheerz Wab.

 

[joecast]

Joe two questions if I may.

Is that the silicon hose from Bunnings? What size was it to fit the brew vessel tap?

I asked the wife to get some Swiss Voile (sp) at Spotlight at Rockdale but they are out of stock. What did you use, and what size piece did you start with?

I am really keen to get started on BIAB, Cheerz Wab.

hose is from craft brewer. 2m is just the right length for me (expensive, but worth it for ease of use) and the 1/2" id fits right over the tap. held on to it though as i was nervous :unsure:
according to the wife, the bag material was not the swiss stuff. this was a bit heavier mesh curtain fabric. already had the section for the draw string in it too.

 

[Adzmax]

I'm starting to collect the required equipment to give BIAB a go. I figure it's probably a good place to start before I lash out and buy equipment I may not necessarily need in the future when I move to other AG methods using a separate mash tun and boiling pot.

Things I WILL need though are -

- A decent size pot (Looking at this one)
- A good gas burner (This one or this one )
- A chiller (Looking at this one)

Curious to know what you think of prices here also

I'm sure this has been done to death, I've done a bit of searching but wasn't really happy with what I found so I'll ask. What sort of burner would you recommend (a Mongolian a Turkey burner with a a stand like the one on G&G website) and where would Melbourne brewers recommend getting a good quality and well priced 50lt Pot (also seen on the G&G website who's prices seem quite reasonable)



Thanks in advance for your help guys and I'm open to suggestion at this stage, I'd just like to be sure that the equipment I'm looking at purchasing will be well suited to what I'd like to use it for as it's a decent $ investment

 

[Kingy]

Unless you dont mind spending big $$$ you could get out of it far cheaper with.

Buying an aluminium pot from somewhere like here Allquip

Also ditch the chiller idea and grab some cubes and no chill (that way you can brew even when your fermenters are full and have your very own fresh wort kits on stand by)and wait for an available fermenter.

cheers kingy

edit: check this for the lowdown on some burners http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&hl=burners

 

[Adzmax]

Thanks for the info. I'm assuming provided that cubes and equipment are sanitised there in no issues storing wort this way? I'll do some reading, I've seen a few threads floating around

Appreciate your help!

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I'm starting to collect the required equipment to give BIAB a go. I figure it's probably a good place to start before I lash out and buy equipment I may not necessarily need in the future when I move to other AG methods using a separate mash tun and boiling pot.

Things I WILL need though are -

- A decent size pot (Looking at this one)
- A good gas burner (This one or this one )
- A chiller (Looking at this one)

Curious to know what you think of prices here also

I'm sure this has been done to death, I've done a bit of searching but wasn't really happy with what I found so I'll ask. What sort of burner would you recommend (a Mongolian a Turkey burner with a a stand like the one on G&G website) and where would Melbourne brewers recommend getting a good quality and well priced 50lt Pot (also seen on the G&G website who's prices seem quite reasonable)
Thanks in advance for your help guys and I'm open to suggestion at this stage, I'd just like to be sure that the equipment I'm looking at purchasing will be well suited to what I'd like to use it for as it's a decent $ investment

Pot - yes, but more expensive from G&G than places like Kingy reccomended. I concur with the Aluminium thing. Cheaper and works well. If you go the G&G, get them to drill a hole for a tap.. you'll want it.

Burner - Yes, but they are high pressure jobbies and need a special reg etc. I have had no preoblems with a low pressure three ring burner (asian cookware shops, camping stores etc) and cant imagine that the 4 ring burners wouldn't be sufficient for anything on a homebrew scale.

Chiller - I mostly chill rather than No-chill. That one will be fine for a standard 20-25 litre batch, but might be a bit small for double batches. The other option I would seriously consider if you want to chill, is a plate chiller from mashmaster or I noticed some on e-bay that looked pretty good. I bought the giant chiller from G&G and its good, but i keep thinking I might have been better off with a plate chiller.... maybe its just greener grass, other side syndrome though.

Good luck.

Thirsty

 

[Adzmax]

I had a read of the burner thread and like the sound of the Italian spiral burner with the adjustable reg and hose @ $129. Uses less gas, makes less noise and it more then enough for what I'll need by the look of it

 

[PistolPatch]

Evenin' Guys!

I've been doing ridiculous hours lately but it's been great to come in at the end of the day and see the new troops BIABing. If I had more time, I'd write a much better welcome.

Bloody nice to see your post joecast. Most people BIABing start with it and, for various understandable reasons think that it is a stepping stone to 'real' brewing.

This might be the BIAB curse for a little while. People will start with BIAB and then look to improve their brewing. At the same time, their recipes will improve and their beer will get better until they find the beers they really like. By this stage, many will have tried filtered water, pH balancing etc and maybe even changed to traditional brewing.

So far joe, we only have Thirsty, you and myself as converts to BIAB from traditional. It should be a lot more hence the reason why I posted several pages ago about entering BIAB beers in competitions. I reckon that is Thirsty's job as he knows how to do it

While I still have some keyboard stamina, it's probably better that I answer some questions though. I'll work in reverse from the most recent question and see how far I get

BURNERS: 3 Ring or the Italian Burner are what you should go for if you have a stock pot that is 90 litres or less. I have both these and both are virtually silent. If you go the three ring, you should probably get an adjustable regulator as well as the gas flow is not that good with the standard regulator. The Italian burner comes with this and a stand. The only prob I have with the Italian is that, with mine, when you adjust the flame and take your hand off, it over or under compensates. I've been meaning to write to domonsura about this but haven't got around to it yet. Nice burner but. I wouldn't go for the more aggressive burners. The noise is atrocious and often, depending on your kettle, makes no diffrence at all to reaching strike temp.

Control of a burner is far more important. You have to remember that saving 5 or ten minutes in reaching strike or boiling temp in a brew day of 4-5 hours is poor compensation to great control.

POTS Allquip tends to be the cheapest Aust wide for both alumium and S/S pots. Pots have an advantage over kegs in the fact that they are legal, do not requirte modicication and have straight sides. It's a purchase you won't regret.

CHILLERS Mmmmm. I know nothing of no-chilling. I scored 30m of copper for free so there you go! I like the idea of no-chilling if you don't have to swap containers - in other words, no-chilling in a kettle sounds good to me. Everything else though sounds too labour-intensive.

Ummmm....

One thing that has been worrying me is that someone had converted to batch-sparging as they found they couldn't do step-mashes with BIAB. One of the great advantages of BIAB is that you should be able to do them very well. I checked this with a qualified brewer a few weeks ago so have no fear of stepping with BIAB.

In fact, one of the many advantages of BIAB is that you CAN control your temps well. In a traditional system you have to add hotter water or recirculate through a heater.

I reckon that BIAB has many advantages that are under-estimated. In fact, the only disadvantage to BIAB that I have been able to think of to date has been double-batching but Harry-Ramblrs and I have recently done it with no problems as have several others.

Spot ya,
Pat

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Hey guys.

Pat. To answer the question you asked in the BIAB register thread, but didn't get to asking here

The Dunk Sparge...

I think a few BIABers are doing some variation of this. Spillsmostofit showed me how to do it and I only modified it a little because I wanted to alright...

Its a bit like the "modified" version of BIAB that I proposed back when we were arguing with DrK et al about L:G ratios etc etc.

When Spills does it (a least this is how I remember it) he adds to his original mash, only enough water for his post-boil volume and to account for grain absorbtion. He doesn't account for boil off.

After removing the bag and boiling, he will be a few litres short of his desired post boil volume because he has boiled it off. So he puts on the kettle in his kitchen, boils a few litres of water, throws it in a bucket and "dunks" in his grain bag. Thus he manages to squeeze a bit of sparge step into the process. The sparge goes into the kettle and viola he will now achieve his desired post boil volume.


When I did it, I took it a little further to partially test out my "modified" BIAB theory. I worked out the thermal mass of what would be left in my grain bag after it was pulled, drained and very lightly squeezed. Then I worked out how many litres of boiling water would be needed to raise that mass to a "sparge" temp of 78C. I subtracted that from my usual BIAB liquor volume.

I mashed in with the remainder of my volume, which actually left me with a far more "normal" L:G ratio of about 3.5 : 1

Because I have one, I boiled the sparge water in my HLT, dunk sparged the bag for a good 5 minutes, then squeezed. Added the sparge back into the boil kettle which had been heating up to the boil during the entire sparge process.

It seems to have eeked another 4 or 5 % efficiency out of the process for me. 89% (pre-boil) on my last batch.


If you dont have a HLT (which of course most BIABers dont) then you could try roughly this....

-Bring to the boil about 22 litres of water... transfer 10 litres into your fermentor (if its glass dont do this OK) wrap that puppy up in a few blankets so it stays hot. If you have NC cubes or other food grade buckets around the place, then you could use them, but BIAB is partly about using less equipment so I'm going with gear I know you must have.

-Add back to the boiling hot water in the ketttle, enough cold water to make up the amount you normally BIAB with minus the 10 litres. This should also be about 10litres. 12litres of boiling water plus 10litres of say 10C tap water should give you 22litres of 65C water. So thats about where you need to be.

-mash as per normal, pull and drain bag, stuff drained bag into fermentor with your hopefully still quite hot 10litres of sparge water, pull bag, drain, squeeze. Add sparge back to kettle.

Or even more simply, you could just sparge with the hottest water you can get out of your tap. If you aren't in the habit of carbon filtering your water, thats how I'd do it. If you do filter, then I suppose you could work it out somehow.


There you go.

Spills' way is the easiest and simplest. Mine is harder but gives a more comprehensive sparge and also takes the L:G ratio down to close to conventionally acceptable levels.

Me, I only did it for an experiment and because of the fact that by jiggling with the amount of sparge water, I can get a few extra litres of volume out of my small batch system. Mostly I probably wont bother and will just go with normal no-sparge BIAB. I prefer the simplicity and I am pretty happy with the 80% efficiency I am getting anyway.

Food for thought at any rate

Thirsty

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

It seems that most times the Thirsty Boy and I get together, a bottle or two gets emptied, so I can forgive him slight inaccuracies. He's pretty much correct with my Dunk Sparge(tm) process, except that I actually use a big kitchen saucepan on the stove for my sparge. The comparative volumes of my sparge water vary depending on my batch size - I started doing it with the big saucepan and used as much water as I could fit into it, so I was using less than my total losses throughout the balance of the process. For my nano-brews, wot he sez is spot on, so the comparative sparge volume is greater (and, ultimately, is my total extraction efficiency it turns out).

On the subject of burners, I think Mr Patch is correct. I love my electric immersion elements, but (until I finish building my computerised heater control dingus) I don't have the energy control that the nanobrews enjoy on the stovetop. The corollary to this is that the boil-off is much more predictable on my electric kit because I cannot fiddle with it.

No-Chillin'. Another topic, another thread, but I would recommend to anyone that does not have a chiller to give no-chilling a shot. I see the reasons for no-chilling as being quite similar to those for BIABing: it definitely works and if you choose to see it as a stepping stone to some other method, you've lost nothing during the journey. I disagree with Mr Patch on the issue of labour - I find that all the things you 'get for free' with no-chillin' make it a very easy technique: no whirlpooling - your break/trub settles to the bottom of the cube and stays out of the fermenter; you get some aeration of the wort as you tip it into your fermenter; your brewday is shorter.

 

[PistolPatch]

Haven't had a chance to properly read through Thirsty and Spills posts above. I've been doing long days and my last post here has been nagging at me...

On a re-read it sounds as though I'm anti-traditional brewing.

This would not be correct. More accurately, I'd have to say this would not be entirely correct.

Here's an example...

FNQBunyip and I are great mates and often talk on the phone and toss around brewing ideas. Bunyip has welders, an abundance of steel and often some free time.

At the last swap, someone said to him, '"You're not still BIABing are you?' Funnily enough, the bloke that said this was the one bloke who's same recipe I had BIAB brewed everyone thought tasted better than his!

The only other taste test we had proved BIAB at least equivalent - 'less astringent but slightly less body,'was the quote from the only person of 7 that could actually tast a difference!

Anyway, when someone says, ''Are you still BIABing?' it casts reasonable doubt over the practice.

This worries me....

It doesn't worry me in the case of Bunyip though....

He's a brewer that does things well and sensibly. He knows that I WANT him to try traditional brewing. He's had the seed of doubt casted but his plan is to test the traditional, at bugger-all expense, whilst maintaining his current brewing practices.

Bunyip has access to kettles not shaped like a Robinox pot and this is something I have always wondered about. How do you pull a bag out of a narrower opening than your vessell?

My prediction for Bunyip is that he won't have to do that with traditional brewing!

I also know that he has not initention of giving up BIAB. The traditional side is an experiment. This is good.

Anyway, if you don't live out in the wilderness like Bunyip but have doubts about BIAB then the first thing you should do is go and watch another person's brew day. After that, hopefully you'll be mates and then you can take your BIAB gear around there and do a side-by-side.

When you can detect a favourable difference between the two beers you brew side-by-side then is the time you should think about changing brewing methods.

Anyway, it's been another long day.

By the way, does anyone when they see a newbee AGr enquire aboout mash tuns or whatever send them a PM referrring them to BIAB? A simple thing like that can save someone months and dollars on their AG journey.

I better go but I think the above para is worth bearing in mind.

Spot ya,
Pat

 

[Hashie]

Agree with you on the mash tun question Pat. I'm not sure why people think BIAB is not 'real' brewing, after all, at the end of the day BIAB and 3 vessel brewing all make wort for yeast to make beer. I would consider doing a 'traditional' brew, just to see how it compares. But I don't believe it would match the simplicity of BIAB.

As to getting a bag from a kettle with a small opening. I use a keggle, which has a smaller opening than it's ID and have never had any problems getting the bag out. Ensuring there are no burrs or sharp edges is a priority and having a small pulley helps no end. I will raise my bag above the wort, but still mostly in the keggle for a few minutes before raising it clear to drain.

 

[Adzmax]

Thanks for the added info PP, Very helpful

 

[Ross]

At the last swap, someone said to him, '"You're not still BIABing are you?' Funnily enough, the bloke that said this was the one bloke who's same recipe I had BIAB brewed everyone thought tasted better than his!

The only other taste test we had proved BIAB at least equivalent - 'less astringent but slightly less body,'was the quote from the only person of 7 that could actually tast a difference!
Spot ya,
Pat

Just to address a couple of points here

It was me that spoke to Ned & my comment was, "I'm surprised with all your space & gear that you haven't tried doing a mash in the traditional way yet" Ned's reply was "well funnily you should say that, as I was just planning to do exactly that" (or words very similar). A little different to "you're not still BIABing are you?"
As you know, i'm a keen supporter of BIAB, I reckon it is a great way for someone to give AG brewing a go.
Having experienced both methods however, I've personally found the traditional method easier (once you understand the principals) & the results better. I've tasted some good BIAB brews, but still not a very good one. Please feel free to send me one you reckon is great for apprasial, as I'd love to be able to say different. This again is not meant as a slur on BIAB as maybe the same brewer would have not made the beer any better by "traditional" methods.

The "test test" you keep refering to needs a little clarification - It was on 2 beers that were both below par (yours & Brads words, not mine) in the first place & were given to brewers to taste, who were pretty well oiled before they drank them . So really, as interesting as it was, it would be nice to see you do a side by side with an experienced brewer doing a tried & tested recipe, with a sober judging panel - This would give the results some credibility.

Anyway, it's competitition season now, so come on guys, get some BIAB brews into the comps & let's see how they fair - I for one would be delighted if they do well.

Cheers & long live BIAB :super:


Ross

 

[Fents]

CHILLERS Mmmmm. I know nothing of no-chilling. Everything else though sounds too labour-intensive.

Says he who lifts 5+KG of grain out of a pot h34r:

 

[kook]

It'd be interesting to propose the same test be run again, with the following parameters:

- A really simple beer. 100% Pale malt, ~ 25 IBU of noble hops @ 60 mins
- Same water, malt, hops, clarifiers, yeast - All from the same supplier and pack or batch number.
- Calibrated thermometers
- Identical Batch size & fermenter geometry
- Both in the same Fermentation fridge
- All post fermentation handling the same (Bottled same day, same priming rates, same equipment, etc)

Then send the beers off to Hugh Dunn & Roger Bussell. Could also run a blind tasting at the West Coast Brewers meeting. Could even send to other homebrew or tasting clubs for evaluation.

I'd be up for doing something along these lines, but I'm busy till late October at the moment.

 

[Kingy]

Ive done a few BIAB's and it is a starting point to venture into AG. All my beers have shat all over all the k+kbeers and extract brews bah 1 ive done. But i do find that the beers dont have enough body. It almost gets there but not quite. i also feel like i am cheating,but it still is exceptionally good beer.

I think going down the traditional way of brewing path i will have more control over my beer,i will actually own a proper brewery (bling), and im sure the beer will be better again. As its the next step up that im going to take.

I dont care how long it takes or how much washing up i have to do as that dont bother me. Therez a lot more information out there on the traditional way and this will help me a great deal.

Thats just how i see it and taste it.

But for know i keep BIAB'in untill i decide to lash out and take the next step.

cheers kingy

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

It'd be interesting to propose the same test be run again, with the following parameters:

- A really simple beer. 100% Pale malt, ~ 25 IBU of noble hops @ 60 mins
- Same water, malt, hops, clarifiers, yeast - All from the same supplier and pack or batch number.
- Calibrated thermometers
- Identical Batch size & fermenter geometry
- Both in the same Fermentation fridge
- All post fermentation handling the same (Bottled same day, same priming rates, same equipment, etc)

Then send the beers off to Hugh Dunn & Roger Bussell. Could also run a blind tasting at the West Coast Brewers meeting. Could even send to other homebrew or tasting clubs for evaluation.

I'd be up for doing something along these lines, but I'm busy till late October at the moment.

Id be up for the tasting panel B) I have tried some of Pistols BIABs and could not find any deficiencies except we ran out. But yes a side by side would be fun.But as we know no two beers will ever be the same.Nore will two brewers results.Thats the great thing about brewing at home.So many variables.
Cheers
Gryphon Brewing