4th Recipe.. Do You Think I Have Over Complicated The Hop Schedule?

[RetsamHsam]

Will i get any advantage in flavour by adding small amounts of hops at various intervals? or should i just chuck them all in at 60 15 and 5 minutes? Any other comments?

I'm planning on putting this down tommorow if it doesn't bloody rain!!!

32L Batch

4.00 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 54.8 %
1.50 kg Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 20.5 %
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 13.7 %
0.40 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.5 %
0.30 kg Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) Grain 4.1 %
0.10 kg Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 1.4 %
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (30 min) Hops 10.7 IBU
15.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (75 min) Hops 7.8 IBU
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.10%] (75 min) Hops 7.8 IBU
15.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (55 min) Hops 7.3 IBU
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.10%] (55 min) Hops 7.3 IBU
15.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (35 min) Hops 6.2 IBU
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.10%] (35 min) Hops 6.2 IBU
10.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (20 min) Hops 4.2 IBU
10.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (15 min) Hops 2.5 IBU
10.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.10%] (15 min) Hops 2.5 IBU
15.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (8 min) Hops 2.3 IBU
10.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.10%] (8 min) Hops 1.5 IBU
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.10%] (3 min) Hops 0.9 IBU
10.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (3 min) Hops 0.6 IBU
2.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) [Starter 500 ml] Yeast-Ale

 

[Inge]

Yes, I think so.

Getting rid of some surplus hops, are we

Also, bear in mind that's a lot of hop sludge if using only pellets, and a lot of lost wort if using flowers or plugs!

Good luck in any case.

 

[devo]

if it's only ya 4th brew then I think ya may wanna keep it a tad simpler.

 

[browndog]

Get rid of the amerillo and you will have a mean English IPA there, I wouldn't change it, should make the brew day all the more interesting.

cheers

Browndog

 

[mika]

Search 'Hopburst', I reckon your recipe will be interesting. If you're keen to do it, go for it. Sucess or failure, it'll still make beer. You'll be busy....

 

[Sammus]

Bahaha pointless agression. gotta love it.

On topic though, ive heard a lot of bad and good things about lots of additions all the way through. I don't know the technicalities behind it but I think when you boil hops you extract certain compounds from them that add to bitterness, flavour, aroma etc. if you boil for up to 10-15min you extract the compounds responsible for flavour aroma and a bit of bitterness. Boil longer than that and you start to get certain undesirable compounds, and you must boil for 60min+ to drive off these undesirables. Fortunately the bitterness compounds dont get driven off, but the flavour/aroma ones do. Hence the usual 60/15/5 schedule... hope that made some sense. So personally I wouldn't want to, but at the same time I've never tried it, and the proof is in the pudding - so why not give it a go?

 

[Lobsta]

Will i get any advantage in flavour by adding small amounts of hops at various intervals? or should i just chuck them all in at 60 15 and 5 minutes? Any other comments?

I'm planning on putting this down tommorow if it doesn't bloody rain!!!

32L Batch

4.00 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 54.8 %
1.50 kg Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 20.5 %
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 13.7 %
0.40 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 5.5 %
0.30 kg Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) Grain 4.1 %
0.10 kg Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 1.4 %
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (30 min) Hops 10.7 IBU
15.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (75 min) Hops 7.8 IBU
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.10%] (75 min) Hops 7.8 IBU
15.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (55 min) Hops 7.3 IBU
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.10%] (55 min) Hops 7.3 IBU
15.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (35 min) Hops 6.2 IBU
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.10%] (35 min) Hops 6.2 IBU
10.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (20 min) Hops 4.2 IBU
10.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (15 min) Hops 2.5 IBU
10.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.10%] (15 min) Hops 2.5 IBU
15.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (8 min) Hops 2.3 IBU
10.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.10%] (8 min) Hops 1.5 IBU
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [6.10%] (3 min) Hops 0.9 IBU
10.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (3 min) Hops 0.6 IBU
2.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) [Starter 500 ml] Yeast-Ale

Holy flaming balls batman!! I gave up reading after about the 3rd addition. i cant say much about the flavour except that it will be an interesting brew. your taste buds will probably still be processing it about 3 hours after you finish drinking. logistically, you can make it work - buy a hell of a lot of plastic cups and label them with times. and dont drink while you are brewing this one...

 

[RetsamHsam]

Search 'Hopburst', I reckon your recipe will be interesting. If you're keen to do it, go for it. Sucess or failure, it'll still make beer. You'll be busy....

Looks like this hopburst idea might be worth a try. So I'm thinking of doing away with the 60 min and 30 min additions and the amarillo and adding all of the hops in the last 20 minutes. I read a couple of the threads and they suggest using 3 or more hop types, I have some Chinook lying around but i have heard it is a terrible hop unless used when fresh.. If it is the case i will just go with the EKG and Fuggles.

 

[sponge]

Bahaha pointless agression. gotta love it.

On topic though, ive heard a lot of bad and good things about lots of additions all the way through. I don't know the technicalities behind it but I think when you boil hops you extract certain compounds from them that add to bitterness, flavour, aroma etc. if you boil for up to 10-15min you extract the compounds responsible for flavour aroma and a bit of bitterness. Boil longer than that and you start to get certain undesirable compounds, and you must boil for 60min+ to drive off these undesirables. Fortunately the bitterness compounds dont get driven off, but the flavour/aroma ones do. Hence the usual 60/15/5 schedule... hope that made some sense. So personally I wouldn't want to, but at the same time I've never tried it, and the proof is in the pudding - so why not give it a go?

now what i did not know. i may try and keep to that for my next brewskie. thats what i normally do but today i felt like doing 60min, 40min, 20min and 0min just for craps and giggles

 

[rich_lamb]

Would be like an English ale but you guys mighta missed the CaraAroma; which is going to make it darkish and provide some raisiny notes. Personally, I like the cut of your gib! CaraAroma should be in every beer

As to the hop additions; well some people just like to make simple things complicated. Vive le difference. Since most people cant register a difference of less than about 5 IBU all this futzing about is probably a waste of time, but as I haven't tasted side by side examples of "normal" beer vs. "crazy infinitesimal hop addition" beer I can't say with any more certainty than about 98%...

 

[KoNG]

Bah. Get amongst it. Seen much bigger hop lists than that..! Do it and enjoy it. That said, if you really want peoples thoughts. Things like OG and IBU's help with analysing a recipe.

 

[Stuster]

It'd probably help to know what beer you are trying to make. Do you want a beer with lots of hop flavour and hop aroma? What sort of malt flavours do you want? Plummy? Caramel?

Hopbursting the hops is fine, though I think that I'd choose to add the bittering hops at either 75 or 55, not both. Sammus, not sure I agree with your description of hop additions. There's certainly no problem with adding hops between 20 and 60 minutes. Ok, the classic definition is aroma hops 0-10 minutes, flavour hops 10-30 minutes, bittering hops more than 30 minutes. Essentially, as you boil the hops you start to lose aroma, then flavour, and increase the bittering as you go.

Overall, I think there's too much going on in the recipe. With six malts and stacks of hop additions of three hops, it all seems too much to me. I'd say simplify one or the other (or both).

 

[rough60]

I'd combine the 55 and 75 min additions and add at 60 mins, there would be no real noticable difference, all your hop additions at 15-35 mins added at 20 or 30 mins, then add half your late additions, half at 10mins and half at flame out.
I'd either drop the light crystal and increase the melanoidin or drop the melanoidin, you wont taste .1kg with that hop schedule.
I'd also swap some late EKG for Amarillo, if you want it in there, you may as well enjoy it.

 

[mr brau]

It is a bit elaborate. What are you trying to achieve by all this? You're obviously after something of a hop flavour, so my best advice is to give it a decent whack of bitterness (ie at beginning of boil), and some at the end (some aroma) and then dry hop post ferment with some nice oily yank hops (high alpha is great). Don't be shy with these hops - and don't chill the batch straight away - give it a day or more at ambient with some pellets in a nice loose cheese cloth bag. This will make you happy.

 

[mika]

Well now sounds like you need to do at least 10 brews just to cover all the suggestions. Stick with what ya got...it'll be an experience either way. You can only learn so much from people's opinions, the rest you kinda have to sort out for yourself.

NIKE !

 

[Lobsta]

maybe bring ross' attention to this thread, i have heard rumors that he has done brews with hop additions every minute. i think the term 'wank factor' is what the person who told me (who shall remain nameless, lest Don Ross has him whacked) used.

word of caution, do not attempt to emulate everything that ross tries. he has the midas touch of brewing. in other words, he is a freak of nature. :lol:

Lobby

 

[RetsamHsam]

This is what i ended up going with..

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.00 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 54.1 %
1.50 kg Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 20.3 %
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 13.5 %
0.40 kg Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) Grain 5.4 %
0.30 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4.1 %
0.20 kg Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 2.7 %
20.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (20 min) Hops 6.0 IBU
20.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (15 min) Hops 4.9 IBU
20.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.80%] (20 min) Hops 4.7 IBU
20.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.80%] (15 min) Hops 3.9 IBU
20.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (10 min) Hops 3.6 IBU
20.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.80%] (10 min) Hops 2.8 IBU
20.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (5 min) Hops 2.0 IBU
20.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.80%] (5 min) Hops 1.6 IBU
20.00 gm Fuggles [6.10%] (0 min) Hops -
20.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.80%] (0 min) Hops -
2.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) [Starter 500 ml] Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.047 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.061 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG Measured Final Gravity: 0.000 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.5 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.0 %
Bitterness: 29.5 IBU
Est Color: 14.3 SRM.

My efficiency was alittle on the high side which meant i ended up with a higher gravity than i anticipated. Other than that all went according to plan..