1022 As Low As I Can Get An Apa?

[stueywhytcross]

Hi all, I have done nearly 20 AG brews. However on my last 3 batches over the past 3 weeks, all American Pale Ales, I have been able to get the FG below 1022!
For all these brews I have been using American Ale Yeast from craft brewer.
One the first batch, A Coopers Pale Ale Clone that started at 1050, I fermented for a week at 22 using my fridgemate temp cont. I checked FG, and it was 1022. I vigorously shloshed fermenter around and left for a 3 more days at 22C. Measured FG still 1022. I racked into secondary and left it in secondary for 5 more days at 20C. Still no change in FG. I tasted it and it didn' taste like there was any significant residual sugar.
I have tested it with 3 different Hydrometers. Anyway, I bottled it bulk primed it but lighter than i normally would.

In the mean time i have done 2 cascade pale ales (1054og and 1056og), 1 with a new packet of American Ale Yeast. The other, i poured onto the yeast cake.
They too have both only fermented down to 1022 after 10days at 21C, and even then a few days in secondary.

I have brewed plenty of APA's before, very similar recipes and have had no problems getting FG down to 1010...even lower!

The Coopers Pale ale clone is carbed up now and tasting good. however it is extremely dirty/cloudy. I thought that this poor clarity may have effected the hydrometer reading...however the 2 cascade pale ales I have been very careful with in regards to clarity. I have used whirfloc, and have even sacrificed more beer than normal when racking to keep the beer clean.

What is happening to my beers?
Why the sudden change in FG?
I was wondering whether the yeast have been effected in someway whilst in storage. I accidently left them in the shed for a week in their vaccuumed sealed packs at temps around 40C?
None of the krausens were really big. Not as thick and creamy as normal when i use this yeast. More a frothy thin detergent kind of head.

Why can't am i experiencing this problem?

 

[mika]

......
I was wondering whether the yeast have been effected in someway whilst in storage. I accidently left them in the shed for a week in their vaccuumed sealed packs at temps around 40C?
None of the krausens were really big.....

 

[SJW]

That would be it!

I kegged my last APA today and it went from 1.050 to 1.012 with 1007 yeast. I would of got even higher attenuation with US-05 but then again I never pre-cook my yeast at 40 deg C either

Steve

 

[dr K]

"cooking" the yeast at 40C will certainly have an effect on viability but should not (over less than a week) affect the attenuation, you are just going to have a smaller number of viable cells.
The yeast came from a reliable source and your short term bad treatment was naughty but not a front runner in the high FG.
Next tsep back is your wort, it is (clearly) not as fermentable, the big standout here is higher than anticipated mash temps (though 1022 is really way too high) and a change in your water supply, we have a pretty tightly monitored water supply here (thanks Australian Taxpayers) but there are ocassions when the pH elevates and attenuation is far less than it should be. Check with your water supplier.
My bet, a combination of the joplin.

K

 

[goomboogo]

Have you checked your thermometers lately? Is it possible your mash thermometer is reading low and you are mashing higher than you think?

 

[stueywhytcross]

"cooking" the yeast at 40C will certainly have an effect on viability but should not (over less than a week) affect the attenuation, you are just going to have a smaller number of viable cells.
The yeast came from a reliable source and your short term bad treatment was naughty but not a front runner in the high FG.
Next tsep back is your wort, it is (clearly) not as fermentable, the big standout here is higher than anticipated mash temps (though 1022 is really way too high) and a change in your water supply, we have a pretty tightly monitored water supply here (thanks Australian Taxpayers) but there are ocassions when the pH elevates and attenuation is far less than it should be. Check with your water supplier.
My bet, a combination of the joplin.

K

I have been using rain water for all my brews, im quite confident nothing has changed there.
All these beers were full bodied. mashed at 70C for an hour, then batch sparged to get temp upto around 80C before leaving for 5 minutes, then to slowly drain off into kettle over 20minutes.
I always check my mashmaster thermometer against a mercury one, and is normally fairly close +/-2C.

Are my temps a little too high?, will this have a major effect on the attenuation?
Thanks, Stu.

 

[dr K]

Are my temps a little too high?, will this have a major effect on the attenuation?
Thanks, Stu.

Yes, and +/- 2C means you may have hit 72C
I am assuming you use a conventional grain to liq of somewhere between 2 and 3 : 1

K

 

[buttersd70]

You appear to be getting similar levels of attenuation as myself....the difference being, I'm deliberately mashing at 72C to force such a low attenuation, in order to produce low alcohol beer.....

Too hot a mash, and probably too thick a mash as well.

 

[goodbrew]

a few brews ago I did my first lager beer, but what i didnt know was that my glass thermometer had a small bit of red alcohol stuck at the top so when I thought I was mashing at 68C it was really 72-73C, gravity readings were 1.052 down to 1.018, not as low as I hoped. have you got another thermometer to check against?

John

 

[stueywhytcross]

I am assuming you use a conventional grain to liq of somewhere between 2 and 3 : 1

around 3L : 1 kg, and sometimes a bit more water.

 

[3G]

Prob a combination of too high a mash temp and lazy yeast.
Try mashing at 65 for an apa

 

[justsomeguy]

I'd aggree with others regarding the mash temp. Mash at around 65 and you should be fine.

Some have indicated that a thick mash could be an issue. How would that change the fermentability of the wort ? Mash temp would certainly cause a change. I'm struggling to see how mash thickness would. Would love to know how though.

gary.

 

[SJW]

Dont use rain water unless you have no other options, this can be a recipe for disaster unless you know what your doing.

 

[stueywhytcross]

I'd aggree with others regarding the mash temp. Mash at around 65 and you should be fine.

Some have indicated that a thick mash could be an issue. How would that change the fermentability of the wort ? Mash temp would certainly cause a change. I'm struggling to see how mash thickness would. Would love to know how though.

gary.

any ideas anyone regarding mash thickness??

 

[therook]

Dont use rain water unless you have no other options, this can be a recipe for disaster unless you know what your doing.

What the hell are you talking about Steve?

Stu,

I mash in with about 2.5

Rook

 

[buttersd70]

any ideas anyone regarding mash thickness??

Not an issue in your case, stu....the comment about thicker mash was made before you posted that it was 3:1. Generally 2.5-3 is fine. So sounds like definate temp issues.

But fyi for those that are curious....grist ratio has a direct bearing on the resultant fermentability, as well as temperature and mash pH. Thicker mashes inhibit enzyme activity, resulting in higher dextrin percentages, and a less fermentable wort. The temperature is the most important factor, but adjusting the grist ratio in conjunction with temperature control and pH can have a big impact on fermentability.

 

[SJW]

QUOTE (SJW @ Nov 11 2008, 12:42 AM)
Dont use rain water unless you have no other options, this can be a recipe for disaster unless you know what your doing.



What the hell are you talking about Steve?

I dont understand why anyone would choose to use rain water if the tap water is fine and drinkable. IMO there are too many unknowns with rain water, especially if there is heavy industry around the area. Why be adding salt and Calcium Sulfate and anything else to tank water if your tap water is drinkable. At least with tap water you can get a acurate analysis from the supplier.
But if u are out in the sticks I would guess that you would have no other options and the water is probably sensational. But not in Newcastle, I would not be using what falls out of the sky around here.

Steve

 

[therook]

I dont understand why anyone would choose to use rain water if the tap water is fine and drinkable. IMO there are too many unknowns with rain water, especially if there is heavy industry around the area. Why be adding salt and Calcium Sulfate and anything else to tank water if your tap water is drinkable. At least with tap water you can get a acurate analysis from the supplier.
But if u are out in the sticks I would guess that you would have no other options and the water is probably sensational. But not in Newcastle, I would not be using what falls out of the sky around here.

Steve

I can understand were your coming from Steve, but don't make a generalisation that all tank water is bad......

Why would you even contemplate living in Newcastle if what's falling out of the sky is so bad, i know i wouldn't want to be breathing it in every second of the day let alone drinking it.

Rook

 

[SJW]

I agree

 

[justsomeguy]

But fyi for those that are curious....grist ratio has a direct bearing on the resultant fermentability, as well as temperature and mash pH. Thicker mashes inhibit enzyme activity, resulting in higher dextrin percentages, and a less fermentable wort. The temperature is the most important factor, but adjusting the grist ratio in conjunction with temperature control and pH can have a big impact on fermentability.

Any references for that info?

Thanks,

gary