1022 As Low As I Can Get An Apa?

[Screwtop]

Any references for that info?

Thanks,

gary

Lots of info available re mash thickness and effects on wort fermentability, like all things brewing "it depends"

Have a look here BYO Article

Screwy

 

[randyrob]

i don't really believe that mashing thin really works, it still makes me fat!

 

[buttersd70]

Any references for that info?

Thanks,

gary

One reference is Briggs Boulton Brookes and Stevens; Brewing Science and Practices (2004) chapter 4.3.7

At high mashing temperatures thicker mashes give worts with higher fermentabilities (Muller, 1991; Fig. 4.13). On the other hand, at `normal' mashing temperatures weaker mashes give more fermentable worts. The high concentrations of sugars and dextrins present in thick mashes can inhibit the amylases. Enzyme inhibition is due to the reduced availability of free water as well as to the sugars acting as competitive inhibitors.

Just a note on the blue section...in full context (which is too big to reproduce here) their reference to high temperature is referring to mashing over the 'normal' sacchirification maximum of 70C, such as would be done in a Springmaischverfahren (jump mash)....which is why jump mashing is done with a very loose mash in the sach stage, contrary to normal logic.

The red section is what is relevant for the majority of home brewers.

Edit...as Screwy said, its a 'depends' thing. It's just one of several variables which most (sane) homebrewers jsut chillax about. Other (freaks) like me pay close attention to it due to a specific goal of what is trying to be produced, and going way way 'outside the box'

 

[stueywhytcross]

One reference is Briggs Boulton Brookes and Stevens; Brewing Science and Practices (2004) chapter 4.3.7



Just a note on the blue section...in full context (which is too big to reproduce here) their reference to high temperature is referring to mashing over the 'normal' sacchirification maximum of 70C, such as would be done in a Springmaischverfahren (jump mash)....which is why jump mashing is done with a very loose mash in the sach stage, contrary to normal logic.

The red section is what is relevant for the majority of home brewers.

Edit...as Screwy said, its a 'depends' thing. It's just one of several variables which most (sane) homebrewers jsut chillax about. Other (freaks) like me pay close attention to it due to a specific goal of what is trying to be produced, and going way way 'outside the box'

So mashing at a ratio of 4:1 or even higher would improve fermentability of wort?
Why aren't we all mashing with higher water ratios and sparging with less, hotter water?

 

[raven19]

i don't really believe that mashing thin really works, it still makes me fat!

Classic :lol:

 

[white.grant]

So mashing at a ratio of 4:1 or even higher would improve fermentability of wort?
Why aren't we all mashing with higher water ratios and sparging with less, hotter water?

To quote from Screwy's link,

"The problem with thin mashes is enzyme stability. Enzymes are less stable in a thin mash and denaturation can become a real problem. The enzyme of concern is beta-amylase, since there is a limiting supply of beta-amylase in comparison to alpha-amylase. If beta-amylase denatures too quickly, then the resulting wort will have a decreased fermentability. "

In effect its a matter of balance.

cheers

grant

 

[buttersd70]

So mashing at a ratio of 4:1 or even higher would improve fermentability of wort?
Why aren't we all mashing with higher water ratios and sparging with less, hotter water?

No...its a little more compex than that. The short version is, that the thinner the mash goes, the more fermentable the wort, but only to a point....it tends to level off at around 3L.

And not everyone desires more fermentable wort. Balance is the key....les fermentable does not necessarily = bad. A balance is required between fermentable, and unfermentable, in order to produce balanced beer, with the right amount of body relevant to the beer type. Which is why for 'general' brewing, there are certain comprimises made...an apa for example, mashed at 65/66, with 2.5-3L/Kg to an OG of 1050ish and fermented with an appropriate yeast will produce a beer with enough body and unfermented higher chain sugars that it is not watery, yet not so much that it is overly heavy. It will have dryness without being thin, will have malt depth without overiding the hops....It's all a balancing act, and the same applies to all other styles.

Edit - beaten by grant...damned tabbed browsers. ^_^

 

[justsomeguy]

Ok,

did a little research myself on this and came up with the following info.

Thicker mash with same temp as thin mash will produce a less fermentable wort. On the order of 5% less fermentable.

It appears that the reason is that a thicker wort somehow protects the alpha amlayse(sp?) so that it can work for a longer period of time over the wort.

The plot thickens, or should I say be saying 'the wort thins...'

gary.

 

[buttersd70]

Ok,

did a little research myself on this and came up with the following info.

Thicker mash with same temp as thin mash will produce a less fermentable wort. On the order of 5% less fermentable.

It appears that the reason is that a thicker wort somehow protects the alpha amlayse(sp?) so that it can work for a longer period of time over the wort.

The plot thickens, or should I say be saying 'the wort thins...'

gary.

Exactly, when in the normal sacchirification range. A few wierd and wonderful things start to happen when you start mashing in the 70's, but for a standard wort, thats exactly right. Hence my Milds/lows are mashed at 70C-2.1-2.2L/Kg. That way I can get a low OG with reasonably high FG.