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100% Cube Hop And Boil Length

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bignath

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Got a question...

Im currently doing an experiment with 100% cube hopping.

In this situation, does it matter if the boil is only as long as it takes to get to my post boil volume?

Currently half way through the boil on a cube hopped only beer, and the boil off is going really quick as i'm not throttling back one of my elements to "control" the boil.

If i'm only adding whirfloc near the end of the boil, and the boil is very vigorous, then it's in my best interests to just boil the crap out of it until i hit post boil volume isn't it?

The way it's going today, i'll hit my post boil volume after maybe 40mins. Very vigorous boil.
 

_HOME_BREW_WALLACE_

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Got a question...

Im currently doing an experiment with 100% cube hopping.

In this situation, does it matter if the boil is only as long as it takes to get to my post boil volume?

Currently half way through the boil on a cube hopped only beer, and the boil off is going really quick as i'm not throttling back one of my elements to "control" the boil.

If i'm only adding whirfloc near the end of the boil, and the boil is very vigorous, then it's in my best interests to just boil the crap out of it until i hit post boil volume isn't it?

The way it's going today, i'll hit my post boil volume after maybe 40mins. Very vigorous boil.

Cant see why it would be a problem. If the boil is as vigorous as you say you shouldnt have any DMS issues and it works out to a shorter, easier brew day!
 

bignath

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Cant see why it would be a problem. If the boil is as vigorous as you say you shouldnt have any DMS issues and it works out to a shorter, easier brew day!
yeah that's what i was thinking...

the wort is trying it's best to jump out my pot.
 

bum

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I believe that boil off is usually given as a per-hour rate rather than a total because it has something to do with time required to drive off volatiles. Perhaps OTT boil vigour combats this but I suspect it'd be fairly common practice if that was how it worked - what with shortcuts being so popular and all.
 

_HOME_BREW_WALLACE_

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I believe that boil off is usually given as a per-hour rate rather than a total because it has something to do with time required to drive off volatiles. Perhaps OTT boil vigour combats this but I suspect it'd be fairly common practice if that was how it worked - what with shortcuts being so popular and all.
You make a good point bum, but the amount of power required to rapidly boil 20L compared to 100,000L the cost may very well throw the "shortcut" out the window - what with cost cutting being so popular and all :p
 

bum

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Ha! Fair call.
 

bignath

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what are you brewing?? (recipe)
This...
Was originally going to do the Tomahawk version i posted in WAYB III earlier today, but a mate came around and we were discussing Nelson Sauvin. He was part way through his mash, as was i, and we agree we should do the same hop to compare differences in recipe, so i went with NS instead of Tomahawk.

Wasn't actually trying to creae a shortcut so to speak, but noticed that due to today being unseasonally warm here, the boil off appeared to be happening much quicker than normal, hence the question about length of the boil if there are no hops being added to it.

If the boil off wasn't vigorous, i'd also be mindful of DMS issues, but she was cracking along.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: NELSON SAUVIN CUBE HOPPED PALE ALE
Brewer: Nathan Creedy
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 29.96 l
Post Boil Volume: 24.96 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 21.00 l
Bottling Volume: 20.50 l
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 4.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 42.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 80.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
3.825 kg Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (3.0 SR Grain 1 90.1 %
0.210 kg CaraPils (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 4.9 %
0.210 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 3 4.9 %
62.6 g Nelson Sauvin [11.30 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 4 42.0 IBUs
0.50 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 mins) Fining 5 -
1.0 pkg SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05) [ Yeast 6 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 4.245 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 32.62 l of water at 67.6 C 65.0 C 60 min

Sparge: Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Notes:
------
15MIN ADDITION IS CUBE HOPPED.
WORKING ON 15MIN TO CALCULATE APPROX. IBU's. - 42



Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

felten

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Says somewhere in this article that it takes 40 minutes to remove half of the DMS, so if you were using a malt with high SMM you might not want to cut the boil short.
 

_HOME_BREW_WALLACE_

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Says somewhere in this article that it takes 40 minutes to remove half of the DMS, so if you were using a malt with high SMM you might not want to cut the boil short.
I suppose. Even if the volume was 4-5L less You could top it up with water at the end of the boil anyway............

Wasn't a bad read.
 

bignath

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As a hypothetical.. is there a crossover somewhere between time boiled vs boil vigour?

Example 1:
if you were using two elements for your boil, and one shat itself..your boil vigour would drop right back, and after 100mins (article) you may not have reached your post boil off.

Example 2:
if you were using two elements for your boil, and it was cracking along vigorously, and after 40/45 mins, you had reached your post boil volume.

Assuming exact recipes, which scenario would be the better one?

I understand neither of these examples are "ideal' or "best practise", and i'm still not trying to shortcut, just trying to get a feel for this whole issue and my current batch which is now sitting happily in a cube.
 

bignath

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shameless bump...
 

Thirsty Boy

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No - as long as you are boiling at an "acceptable" vigour, boiling harder will not particularly help with driving off volatiles. Look at all the commercial systems for reducing boil length and thus the amount of energy required to do it.... they are ALL about increasing volatile stripping, and they all involve shit you cannot do in your homebrew setting.

If your boil is good enough - from then on its about length.

If I were you, I would boil normally. I also would no boil completely without hops. Hop polyphenols really help to make the hotbreak happen properly and reduce teh pH of the boil. They aren't strictly necessary..... but I think you are more likely to get a result you like if you put at least a little bit of hops into the kettle. Even just 5 or 10 grams. Then leave the rest for the cube. I've done that plenty of times and it works nicely; if you have your utilisation calculations right anyway.

TB
 

bignath

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Cool, thanks TB.

So to summarize, with another hypothetical -

All things being equal, a 5lt boil off per hour FOR AN HOUR, is better than a 5lt boil off per hour done in 30-45mins?

Once again, assuming no hops in the boil to screw with IBU's etc..


Didn't know that about hops and hot break formation either - cheers for the info, will try that out.
 

seemax

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Just did a munich IPA last night, 10g of Magnum @ 60min for 10 IBU, then 100g Cascade/Simcoe combo in the cube... will also dry hop @ 1g/L before kegging.

If you have the time, just add water to correct the volume post boil or preferment.
 

Thirsty Boy

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So to summarize, with another hypothetical -

All things being equal, a 5lt boil off per hour FOR AN HOUR, is better than a 5lt boil off per hour done in 30-45mins?
yes - assuming that we are talking about volatile (dms) stripping at any rate AND that the boil is an acceptable one in the first place.

Its more complicated than that of course, or if you like, wait 5 minutes and someone will chime in with how they've only ever boiled for 23.6minutes because thats how long it takes to walk their dog and their beer is tastier than angel jizz so even this simplification is overkill complexity... but thats the crux of it if you're are using a simple open boil.
 

pk.sax

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I though angel jizz was patent pending by CUB
 

1974Alby

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wait 5 minutes and someone will chime in with how they've only ever boiled for 23.6minutes because thats how long it takes to walk their dog and their beer is tastier than angel jizz

I dont have a dog...but I ran out of gas @ 40 minutes once and promptly cube hopped all my late additions....turned out luverly!!!..but I continue to generally boil for 60 - 90 mins, just not too phased if I have to cut it short for some reason.
 

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