Yeast Starter Question

[jkmeldrum]

Just a query...

Got a good starter going after Dr Smurto kindly gave me half of some of his Wyeast 1469. I would have started with about 200mL and over about a week I estimate I increased the volume of my starter to about 1.5L. Nice and active with high krausen. I reckon I pitched about 500 - 600mL of this starter into a 24L wort in the fermenter and I've stored the rest in the fridge.

It's going gangbusters right now, but I was just wondering if I have added too much yeast. Is there a simple way to tell, or do I just need to wait and see how it tastes?

Cheers

Molly

 

[kevin_smevin]

Just a query...

Got a good starter going after Dr Smurto kindly gave me half of some of his Wyeast 1469. I would have started with about 200mL and over about a week I estimate I increased the volume of my starter to about 1.5L. Nice and active with high krausen. I reckon I pitched about 500 - 600mL of this starter into a 24L wort in the fermenter and I've stored the rest in the fridge.

It's going gangbusters right now, but I was just wondering if I have added too much yeast. Is there a simple way to tell, or do I just need to wait and see how it tastes?

Cheers

Molly

I doubt you have added too much. You probably haven't added enough if you want to pitch to recommended pitching rates. Mr matly (website can help you estimate the amount of yeast a starter will generate. Worth having a squiz at.

 

[Wolfy]

Got a good starter going after Dr Smurto kindly gave me half of some of his Wyeast 1469. I would have started with about 200mL and over about a week I estimate I increased the volume of my starter to about 1.5L. Nice and active with high krausen. I reckon I pitched about 500 - 600mL of this starter into a 24L wort in the fermenter and I've stored the rest in the fridge.

It's going gangbusters right now, but I was just wondering if I have added too much yeast. Is there a simple way to tell, or do I just need to wait and see how it tastes?

Sounds like you did exactly the right thing to me.

 

[jkmeldrum]

I doubt you have added too much. You probably haven't added enough if you want to pitch to recommended pitching rates. Mr matly (website can help you estimate the amount of yeast a starter will generate. Worth having a squiz at.

OK thanks....I'll check out.

 

[jkmeldrum]

Sounds like you did exactly the right thing to me.

Yeah, I thought, going by what I had read here and elsewhere that it seemed about the right amount. It's actually the first time that I've made a larger starter, other than really just activating yeast in the past to get it going. It just got bubbling so quickly compared to when I usually pitch my liquid yeasts and it's been going flat out for two days. (Not that I'm complaining). I was mainly interested to note whether a very active fermentation would do anything to the flavour as opposed to a slow fermentation? Does how quickly it brews out affect the flavour profile at all?

Thanks

 

[rude]

Good for you molly I like you're enthusiasm yeast is at the heart of a good brew.

Yum Yum Yum gave you a good tip go MR MALTY for recommended rates

Different yeasts different reactions whether it spews out or not I like to pitch right & keep at constant temp but have read on here that you really have more probs underpitching compared to over pitching

 

[mh971]

Just happened to be reading a magazine article on this 10 mins ago (pinnacle of brewing science information they are).

Sounds like you are on the money with your first starter. Wish mine went that well.

According to what I have just read - and will forever forth claim to have known since birth

A quick normal ferment of 3-4 days produces cleaner beers, plus the quicker the yeast fill the headspace with CO2 the better your protection form spoilage organisms. Weaker and slow ferments are more likley to throw out unwanted flavour imbalances and off flavours (unless you're brewing a lager in which case you may want some diacetyl).

 

[np1962]

Just happened to be reading a magazine article on this 10 mins ago (pinnacle of brewing science information they are).

Sounds like you are on the money with your first starter. Wish mine went that well.

According to what I have just read - and will forever forth claim to have known since birth

A quick normal ferment of 3-4 days produces cleaner beers, plus the quicker the yeast fill the headspace with CO2 the better your protection form spoilage organisms. Weaker and slow ferments are more likley to throw out unwanted flavour imbalances and off flavours (unless you're brewing a lager in which case you may want some diacetyl).

The magazine article told you that you should have Diacetyl in your Lagers?
I'd stop reading it if I were you
Diacetyl has no place in Lagers.
Apart from that everything else is pretty spot on.
Cheers
Nige

 

[Nick JD]

Diacetyl has no place in Lagers.

A Boh Pils can.

 

[The Giant]

What are the consequences of pitching to much yeast?

I have been rinsing a hefeweizin yeast I want to reuse but am unsure whether to just chuck the whole lot in or half of it. Have about 100ml of yeast judging by the lovely layer at the bottom of my bottle.

 

[cdbrown]

If the beer is overpitched, yeast do not grow though a complete growth cycle. This results in few new yeast cells, which makes for unhealthy yeast and low viability by the end of fermentation.

 

[argon]

What are the consequences of pitching to much yeast?

I have been rinsing a hefeweizin yeast I want to reuse but am unsure whether to just chuck the whole lot in or half of it. Have about 100ml of yeast judging by the lovely layer at the bottom of my bottle.

Alot of the flavours and esters you get in beer is a result of the yeast growing and mulitplying. If you were to significantly overpitch you may end up with less of these desirable compounds in your finished beer.

 

[donburke]

If the beer is overpitched, yeast do not grow though a complete growth cycle. This results in few new yeast cells, which makes for unhealthy yeast and low viability by the end of fermentation.

is this right ?

every time i make a starter, i am overpitching into that starter, e.g. 1 fresh wyeast pack into only 1 or 2 litres of wort

does this mean i've left my yeast in an unhealthy state to ferment my beer ?

 

[cdbrown]

I took that directly from Whitelabs faq

I have my own questions regarding starters

I've got 4 jars of rinsed WY1056 trub in my fridge (haven't gotten around to bottling them) and have a brew coming up soon which according to beersmith requires 414B cells for proper ferment. Jars collected 03/08 so beersmith is giving it 57% viable and needing 0.35L of slurry. Is this volume based on compact rinsed yeast? I plan on doing a starter from one of the jars - would 2L be ok? I've read that typically you only get 100B/L but is that based on a smack pack? Is that valid for starters with rinsed yeast?

With a 2L starter do most people just add the whole thing to the fermenter or if I plan ahead I can get the starter fermented out, decant off the "beer" and just use the resulting starter trub for the brew. Would that have enough yeast cells?

 

[manticle]

is this right ?

every time i make a starter, i am overpitching into that starter, e.g. 1 fresh wyeast pack into only 1 or 2 litres of wort

does this mean i've left my yeast in an unhealthy state to ferment my beer ?

As far as I understand it's not that the yeast is unhealthy. When you do this you are making an active starter which you then pitch into a lot of wort ready to multiply (healthily). Not much multiplication will take place in that starter wort though. Multiplication happens in the main wort into which you are obviously not overpitching unless you've miscalculated.

You are not trying to grow cells unless you are first stepping up from a slant into an active starter.

@cdbrown - I make starters from the same wort I'm pitching into and treat them the way I would any ferment. Therefore I pitch the lot.

If I were using a different wort or a lot of malt extract or agitating/oxidising during ferment with a stirplate and high temps to grow quickly, then I would ferment out, chill, then decant and use only the yeast slurry.

 

[cdbrown]

I normally make starters 200g LDME in 2L water, sitting on a stir plate so that it's all ready to go once the last bit of cooled wort is drained from the kettle into the fermenter.

How do you go about using the wort from the batch your brewing? Do you have to wait for a day between putting wort into fermenter and pitching starter? Any concerns about infection due to leaving cooled wort for a while before pitching?

 

[jlargue]

That amount would give you a reasonable ferment check beer smith as they had an article on this I think you could safely double this amount for a better ferment best practice is to remove the starter beer as this would contain some off flavours which could impact on the new beer and if you are constantly reusing the yeast will tend to pick up off flavours and multiply them remember the colder you ferment the more yeast you will need for a good ferment

 

[manticle]

I normally make starters 200g LDME in 2L water, sitting on a stir plate so that it's all ready to go once the last bit of cooled wort is drained from the kettle into the fermenter.

How do you go about using the wort from the batch your brewing? Do you have to wait for a day between putting wort into fermenter and pitching starter? Any concerns about infection due to leaving cooled wort for a while before pitching?

The advantage of no chill. I have time to get my starter ready and pitch a few days later. Since I'm only after an active starter from fresh smack pack in most cases*, I can usually pitch the next day. I get the wort one of two ways - pour off about 2 litres or so once I've stopped filling the cube (once trub starts to confuddle the wort). Let it settle in the fridge overnight, pour into erlenmeyer, leaving behind the settled trub, boil, chill to ferment temp then add yeast.

The other way is simply to take it from the boil, just before I add the hops, put in an erlenmeyer and boil on the stove while the main boil is going on.

*On the occasions when I do step up from slant/reserved yeast, the no chill can obviously sit there as long as it needs. In your case, I'd be decanting and just using the yeast.

 

[cdbrown]

Ahh thought no chill might be the case with this. I think I'll just get the starter going with LDME and the saved yeast and by the time I get around to brewing early next week the starter will have been done and chilled.

 

[Wolfy]

I've got 4 jars of rinsed WY1056 trub in my fridge (haven't gotten around to bottling them) and have a brew coming up soon which according to beersmith requires 414B cells for proper ferment. Jars collected 03/08 so beersmith is giving it 57% viable and needing 0.35L of slurry. Is this volume based on compact rinsed yeast? I plan on doing a starter from one of the jars - would 2L be ok? I've read that typically you only get 100B/L but is that based on a smack pack? Is that valid for starters with rinsed yeast?

With a 2L starter do most people just add the whole thing to the fermenter or if I plan ahead I can get the starter fermented out, decant off the "beer" and just use the resulting starter trub for the brew. Would that have enough yeast cells?

Given that your slurry is now more than 1-2 weeks old, it would be best to make a starter.

However, you'll need a starter size of about 4L to close to the 400billion cells they are suggesting (I assume it's a double batch?) A 2L starter, on a stir-plate will give you somewhere around 200billion cells, which is only half what BS suggested.

Since I use a stir-plate and do not use the same wort as my beer, I always let the starter fully ferment, settle, decant the spent starter beer and pitch only the yeast.