Where Does Yeast Come From?

[chappo1970]

Lilo, I totally agree. Of late there just doesn't seem to be the same willingness to help or guide the lessor knowledgable of the brewing fraternity, or the answers that you do get are simply "this is how you do it stupid" or my favorite "did you use the search function??". I have been part of this forum for a few years now and have made some great friendships and learned a lot about the subject of beer and brewing, but I have definately seen a drop in the quality and helpfulness of answers. And considering were all here for the same reason.......BEER! its giving me the shits.
So sometimes you might think that a question has been done a thousand times or that its beneath you, I would just ask you to remember that you too had to start somewhere and someone helped you!!! so show a little tolerance and try and show people how to use the site not just blow them off.

Now, if have just read the above comments and sighed under your breath that I'm a knob, I ask you to lean back on your chair and give yourself an uppercut because your the dickhead that I'm talking about.

Oh and Merry Christmas
Jay

+1 Jay

I know I'm coming in late here BUT this bullshit has to stop. Let it be said Lilo is a bloody great brewer, oh and I know because I have had my fill of his beers before today and each one was a cracker IMO, not everyone who brews needs to be a walking talking almanac for **** sake. Lilo asked a very good and legit question whilst he admitted that he was stumped. To decry the guy is very poor form and an insult.

Thank you to those that took the high road and answered his question.

Chappo

 

[yardy]

give yourself an uppercut because your the dickhead that I'm talking about.

yeah, there's a bit of it lately, makes you wonder if they're as big a dickhead in person as they are sitting at the keyboard ... tragics

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

... makes you wonder if they're as big a dickhead in person as they are sitting at the keyboard ...

Well, I'm prepared to stick my hand up and say that I am a *bigger* dickhead in person than when I am sitting at the keyboard. I find it easier to self-edit when sitting down. :blink:

It is indeed unfortunate that this forum is effectively losing relevance to brewers who want to progress their craft. But, it remains the only real game in town if you're looking to be a bit adventurous and I hope this element remains long enough to overcome the forces of evil...

 

[warra48]

I apologise if anyone feels offended by any posts in this thread.

 

[Spartan 117]

I would have thought this to be a very legitimate topic for discussion here. I find it a little harsh that someone reasonably new to brewing can com here asking quite genuine questions, and basically get told to F**K off and google it. As Lilo states, yes he could do that, however I don't know about you, but I value the opinions of the people on this board much more highly than some random and possibly very old web site.

Now, fair enough if the question had been "why is my airlock not bubbling", "where can I buy some hops", "where do I put the kitten", as these are very frequently posted topics, however this particular topic is not one I've seen up for discussion here, and while I'm nowhere near the longest serving member on this forum, I have been around a number of years, and have read many interesting and informative topics.

So, in summary (before I write a thesis on the subject), I would love to know a genuine answer to the topic at hand, and think this would make a very informative thread topic (unlike some of the bullshit on here of late).

Cheers & Beers

+ 1, As far as I'm aware different strains of yeast come from a single strain, where certain yeast are isolated and selectively bread for their attributes, ie. oh this yeast produces x aroma and y flavour lets use it in beer z. Wyeast have a poster (got one from Dave, legend) and has some usefull info, can't find it atm also the craftbrewer website has info on yeast and there attributes. Basically it comes down to evolution (or macro evolution) Richard Dawkins has a good chapter on it in, "The Greatest Show on Earth" Chapter 2, and another account of evolution in a lab of e.coli by Richard Lenski and his team on page 116 sub chapter "45,000 Generations in the Lab". I think it is for this reason that it is recommended you change your yeast cultures (slants etc.) after a few generations. Where as Wyeast labs have "living fossils" of the original generation (I would guess, not sure really) and if so would be able to replicate the strain indefinitely (to a degree)

Hope this helps, it was a bit of a rant.

Aaron

 

[Synthetase]

By now I'm sure you've read the wikipedia page on yeasts and know that they're free-living single celled fungi. Yeasts are found throughout the environment in vast numbers difficult to comprehend. Different species/strains are found in different niches, for example Saccharomyces cerevisiae is often found on the skins of grapes and is largely responsible for the fermentation of wine. I say largely, because there are other species of yeast involved as well as bacteria (a separate "kingdom", if you like, of microorganisms) which also play a role to a greater or lesser extent. Now that we understand fermentation, the winemaker can kill wild yeasts and bacteria using campden tablets and inoculate the wine must with strains of his choosing just as in beer making. This allows greater control over the process and gives greater reproducibility.

The natural "microflora" (the mix of microorganisms to be found there) of any one geographical location will vary depending on season, temperature, available food, etc. It will also be different to other regions. This, along with artificial selection, is largely responsible for the large number of different yeast strains available via Wyeast or white labs. "Strain" is a subdivision of species. Strains are varients within a species group. Variation occurs during reproduction and variants may be "selected for" (favoured for reproduction) either naturally or artificially. This is evolution. (By the way, this is an example of micro evolution, NOT macro evolution. The pointless distinction refers to evolution within (micro) a species as opposed to that which occurs between (macro) species barriers. The distinction is pointless due to the fluid nature of "species".)

Brewers in different regions made their wort which would inevitably become contaminated with wild yeast. They then selected those particular strains that produced potable beer by taking samples from the fermenting wort (sometimes inadvertantly with the much-discussed yeast-on-a-stirring-paddle method). As you can imagine, brewers in different regions would make wort in different ways using varying ingredients and ferment at different temperatures. The brewers were of course, selecting for the strains that produced the best beer, according to their tastes, under these conditions. Therefore the unique properties of each strain are intertwined with the beer style. Weizen yeasts have low flocculation and a bananary/clovey ester profile needed to produce a good hefeweizen. So a high-flocculation, low ester, clean lager yeast might make a nice beer, but it wont make a hefe.

 

[Lilo]

Sensational reply,
Thanks Syntetase for the concise relevant info.
I have as you intimated been doing much research, but having it put into relative speak is much appreciated

Lilo