What Is Happening To My Chest Freezers?

[remi]

My 210L chest freezer appears to be on it's last legs...struggling to hold 5C.

I had the same thing happen a year or so to my previous chestie (after approx 2yrs of service). Was able to find the same model as a replacement and so could re-use the same collar.

Now this freezer has started dying after only 15months. Both were Kelvinator 210L models- which are pretty common (sometimes branded Westinghouse).



Both were purchased secondhand aged between 5-10 yrs, having given faithful service without a hitch previously. After the first one died, I got it re-gassed- which was a waste of time, as it only lasted 5 days. As this freezer (and many others) has internal cooling lines, it is not practical to try and repair it.

I control the temp with a fridgemate using the recommended settings- 1C temp difference, cooling mode, 9 min compressor delay. The temp probe is stuck onto the side of one of the full kegs and insulated with bluetack. I've never had the impression that they cycle particularly often- until they die of course.

Have I just been unlucky? Is this a common problem with this particular brand, or is this just a consequence of running a freezer outside it's usual operating parameters?

Now I need to source a third freezer in just over 3 years... which gives me the *****. Would I be better off with a fridge? Given the frequent turnover, I'm at a loss whether to buy a brand-new one, (for much more coin than I've payed previously), or just go another secondhand. If I shell out $500 or so, and it dies after 2 yrs, I'll be much more upset than if I pay $100 and it dies in another 12 months.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Thanks

Remi

 

[balconybrewer]

no help on the health of your freezer sorry,

but how did you go about painting your collar....... looks the goods.

cheers

 

[michael_aussie]

if you buy new you will get more than 2 years for sure.....

as for second hand .. it's the luck of the draw.. ur next one may go for 10+ years ... or 2 weeks.

 

[Diesel80]

My 210L chest freezer

I control the temp with a fridgemate using the recommended settings- 1C temp difference, cooling mode, 9 min compressor delay. The temp probe is stuck onto the side of one of the full kegs and insulated with bluetack. I've never had the impression that they cycle particularly often- until they die of course.

Thanks

Remi

Remi,

I have a 210l chest freezer and i am using identical setup. Collar not yet built, using a fridgemate with the same settings. I have been using it for 2 weeks so far at you specs, but 3 weeks prior it was used for fermenting at 12-14 degrees. It is about 15 years old the freezer.

Did you notice a gradual decrease in performance, increase in cycling etc? Or was it sudden?

Were you using a fan inside your freezer?

Cheers,
D80

 

[remi]

Hi,

The failure on both occasions was fairly sudden. I noticed that each time I walked past the freezer- it was on, which is unusual as when working correctly it is off the vast majority of the time. Also- when touching the front of the freezer while on- the exterior wall was cool, as opposed to hot when working well.

On the first occasion, the freezer cacked itself fairly quickly from the day I first became aware of the change. On this occasion, the freezer is still holding 4-5C, although to do this it is running the majority of the time. I suspect if it was summer, I'd have warm beer by now. Don't use a fan.

Remi

 

[bcp]

Hi,

The failure on both occasions was fairly sudden. I noticed that each time I walked past the freezer- it was on, which is unusual as when working correctly it is off the vast majority of the time. Also- when touching the front of the freezer while on- the exterior wall was cool, as opposed to hot when working well.

On the first occasion, the freezer cacked itself fairly quickly from the day I first became aware of the change. On this occasion, the freezer is still holding 4-5C, although to do this it is running the majority of the time. I suspect if it was summer, I'd have warm beer by now. Don't use a fan.

Remi

My fridge recently died, and Rob2 asked me this: "On a side note, does your temp controller have a delay for the compressor because if it doesn't this can cause a lot of wear on the relay and compressor."

 

[brettprevans]

i recon the just the chance you take when buying second hand.

mind you in saying that I can seem to get my chesty down past 6C anymore. I dont really care as I wouldnt serve beer colder than that anyway.

as for wheather you pony up for a new one or a secondhand one, well thats probably your call considering your financial situation.

@bcp - he already stated whats temp settings he used in the OP and yes it has a compressor delay.

 

[stux]

This is the thing though,

You read so many people having chesty's fail after 1 or two years of service... but how often do you hear of a second hand fridge failing?

I just recycled a fridge which had been in service for 30+ years... last 2 as a keg fridge...

I just moved another fermentation fridge onto another brewer, its circa 20 years old

My other two fermentation fridges have been going for 10-15 years, without a hiccup

And my food chest freezer is i dunno how old, but its still going strong.


My point is... is there something about running a chest freezer at fridge temps?

This is one reason why I went for a fisher&paykel upside down fridge/freezer for my last kegerator and all-fridges for my fermentation chambers

Having to build a collar ever other year didn't appeal.

 

[hsb]

I picked up one off eBay (new) for $300 (holds 6 cornies)

It has a temp controller mounted on the front so I've been using that.
No idea if it is better to use this built-in one or to hook up the FridgeMate.
Need some kind of log of when the freezer is running or not.

I have a fan in my mine. I'm thinking about using some spare polystyrene to insulate the collar. could the collar be causing too much heat loss and wearing out the freezer quicker?

 

[Burghbrewer]

Hi Remi
Im a Domestic fridge repairer, this is what I think happens when a Chest Freezers thermostat is changed to cycle as a Fridge.
A Fridge known as a Cyclic/Moist Cold, which means its not a Frost Free and has in the Food Cabinet a cooling plate against the back wall, which when running or [Cycling] turns frosty, when this plate becomes cold enough the thermostat sensor that is attached to it, turns the compressor off and the plate that has a thin film of frost on it turns to water, and runs into a drain at the bottom of that plate.
Now in the case of a chest freezer, it is designed to hold its temp. at around -18 to-20 or there abouts, everything including its insulation stays frozen, if you now change the opperating temperature to run at say +4 or there abouts, it will then still freeze a section of the pipework internally behind the lining or all of it, but it will then defrost like it would in the case of a cooling plate, then that water soaks up into the insulation over and over again, then owing to that tube being mild steel with a very thin coating of copper, and sitting in moisture, it forms pit holes untill it is too thin to hold the pressure, and out blows the gas.
While they work there a great thing, but in my opinion not designed to do so for many years.
Thats my long winded opinion, but I hope it helps
Chris :icon_cheers:

 

[remi]

Thanks Burghbrewer,

That's a very helpful reply. I had read previously that chest freezers could have this sort of issue, and by posting my question I was hoping to also get a feel for how many other people have had this problem- or whether my experience has been particularly bad luck.

From your advice, it seems that maybe a fridge may be a better solution for the longer term. On the other hand, the internal dimensions of my freezer allow me to store 5 kegs (3 on the floor, 2 on the compressor hump with a collar). I'm not sure that there are too many fridges that would allow this (unless someone can suggest one).

I've probably still got a couple of weeks to make a decision before I'm faced with warm beer. If anyone can suggest a suitable fridge that will take 5 kegs- please let me know.

Otherwise I'll probably just risk a chestie again.

Thanks all,

Remi

 

[mxd]

I had 2 die over the last 6 weeks, 1 frezerator 18 month from 2nd hand, and a fermenting one that my family has owned for 20 years, died after 6 ferments form 18 down to 2 deg

 

[stux]

Thanks Burghbrewer,

That's a very helpful reply. I had read previously that chest freezers could have this sort of issue, and by posting my question I was hoping to also get a feel for how many other people have had this problem- or whether my experience has been particularly bad luck.

From your advice, it seems that maybe a fridge may be a better solution for the longer term. On the other hand, the internal dimensions of my freezer allow me to store 5 kegs (3 on the floor, 2 on the compressor hump with a collar). I'm not sure that there are too many fridges that would allow this (unless someone can suggest one).

I've probably still got a couple of weeks to make a decision before I'm faced with warm beer. If anyone can suggest a suitable fridge that will take 5 kegs- please let me know.

Otherwise I'll probably just risk a chestie again.

Thanks all,

Remi

My new keg fridge is a Fisher&Paykel 442L Upside-down fridge that I scored 2nd hand.

(I think its the 442)

Anyway, once I cut out some 4ply to fit the bottom and make it flat I can now fit 5 kegs

2 at the back, one in the middle, 2 at the front

Without modifying the cavity.

And have a 6 way manifold down the side and I can still have the top shelf used for brewskis and the two "butter/cheese" shelves in the door for misc.

This means I can have four taps on the door, with drip tray at the *perfect* height.

I could have a fifth tap, but I like having a "hot spare" keg carbonating

And the door will clear a keg on the floor when it swings out...

And the freezer is perfect for storing vodka + hops

 

[reVoxAHB]

Hi Remi

Was complimenting a buddy on his 700L chestie/dispensing setup a few years ago asking for freezer selection tips, etc. and the advice he gave me was don't stuff around with second hand. I realise this is luck of the draw more than anything else. His story was purchasing two (was it 3?) second hand units - gumtree, eBay, etc. all of them failing, some quicker than others and none of them lasting longer than a year. He resolved, and probably more out of frustration and stuffing around than anything else, to purchasing a new unit with extended warranty. It's been going full guns ever since. And he's shifted locations a couple of times, too.

This week, I plan to purchase a Haier 324L chestie from CostCo @$550. CostCo's warranty policy is that for as long as you remain a member, you can return an item for any reason for replacement, or cash-back. Two separate managers have confirmed this.. I even threw out the scenario of, "What if I still own this in 10 years and it finally fails? Can I bring it back for a refund?" And was recanted the policy verbatim. It's this lifetime warranty, that's the kicker for me. I plan to collar it, etc. without drilling or touching the unit itself so will remain stock, in appearance. Haier is manufactured in China, and has been selling well (in the US, primarily) for well over a decade. The unit comfortably holds 6 conrys on the floor and I guess you could do more on the hump, certainly a couple of 9L units.. didn't measure for 19L/collared as 6 meets my requirement. Haier unit here and here here

And another tip, they order 10-12 units each month where depending on how they sell, you can purchase the floor model (never plugged-in or used, out of packing for inspection) for $500. I reckon you could even haggle, further. If you're not a member, I'm headed down this week if you want to tag along, Shoot me a PM.

reVox

 

[hsb]

Is there anything practical you can do to prolong the life of the freezer? Is leaking gas and this type of damage something repairable? Is it worth it?
If only someone made chest fridges..

Hi Remi
Im a Domestic fridge repairer, this is what I think happens when a Chest Freezers thermostat is changed to cycle as a Fridge.
A Fridge known as a Cyclic/Moist Cold, which means its not a Frost Free and has in the Food Cabinet a cooling plate against the back wall, which when running or [Cycling] turns frosty, when this plate becomes cold enough the thermostat sensor that is attached to it, turns the compressor off and the plate that has a thin film of frost on it turns to water, and runs into a drain at the bottom of that plate.
Now in the case of a chest freezer, it is designed to hold its temp. at around -18 to-20 or there abouts, everything including its insulation stays frozen, if you now change the opperating temperature to run at say +4 or there abouts, it will then still freeze a section of the pipework internally behind the lining or all of it, but it will then defrost like it would in the case of a cooling plate, then that water soaks up into the insulation over and over again, then owing to that tube being mild steel with a very thin coating of copper, and sitting in moisture, it forms pit holes untill it is too thin to hold the pressure, and out blows the gas.
While they work there a great thing, but in my opinion not designed to do so for many years.
Thats my long winded opinion, but I hope it helps
Chris :icon_cheers:

 

[michael_aussie]

watching this tread closely!!

 

[Dazza88]

I was looking into chest freezers for my kegs, maybe i should just find a fridge instead?

 

[remi]

Thanks for the tips guys,

That Haier unit looks good Revox, and an amazing deal as well re: replacement warranty. I don't think it will fit for me though, I've got a very tight space to squeeze into- a max width of about 720mm- so even if I showed it in sideways, it wouldn't quite fit. I'll see if they stock other freezers...

The 442L fridge is also interesting, if you can fit 5 kegs in that may be ideal. Any chance you could post photos of how the kegs fit in, or confirm the model number so I can have a look at dimensions etc.

Remi

 

[brettprevans]

chest freezers are generally regarded as being superior to fridges. there are threads on energy use etc on AHB. the motor shyould last longer becasue it cycles on and off less than a fridge. the biggest issue is the upfront cost and that freezer compressors cost a forntune and its almost as much to buy a new fridge as it is to have a compressor replaced.

its been nailed on the head the biggest issue - 2nd hand is pot luck. if you can afford it then yeah get a new one, unless you can by a 2nd hand one off someone you know.

all that being said, for me to buy a brand name 700L chesty it would be up round the $1.5k mark. no way have i got that sort of cash to spend. so it would have to be a smaller unit (im not sure i could bear the thought) or another 2nd hand unit. the one I currently have I bought for $100 and its been going for 4 years. im happy with that.

 

[reVoxAHB]

I'll see if they stock other freezers...

I'm pretty sure they stock 1 smaller chest freezer. I didn't take notice of the dimensions as I was only interested in 300L+ but yeah, pretty sure there's a smaller unit. And they stock a bar fridge and a fridge/freezer combo. At least they did a few weeks ago.