Water - Is It Ok To Use Hot Water Tap?

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What age are you looking at for being too old. I have a Saxon electric HWS. I do not use it for brewing as yet but i would consider it if I could save both time and energy. Also would 5.2 ph buffer help out any ph issues caused from the HWS.

cheers Brad

I can't answer the age question, it depends on what it's made of and how it works (the older they are the more likely they are to be unfriendly for consumption purposes). I doubt the concentration of trace metals would contribute significantly to pH, they would be obviated by the much higher amounts of other salts in your water supply. A pH 5.2 buffer ought to keep that under control. I use it because I really can't be bothered playing around with a range of different salts (although I'm sure I will eventually).
 
You must also consider the age of the house you live in. Hot water from your spanking brand new sola heater has to pass/sit in copper pipes if your house is older (and if your house is really old you will have iron pipes).

But in this case, it wouldn't really matter if you were using water from the hot or cold tap??? As they would both have the same issue, unless the higher temps makes a difference in the pipes.
 
I use hot water often.

Neither copper nor iron are heavy metals so if they're not in toxic amounts then I doubt a small amount of either in the weater will do much harm. Copper is only toxic in very large amounts - I guess iron is similar as in small amounts it's an essential mineral.

Please note: I am not claiming to be Mr Science man so if there's evidence to the contrary I'll switch over to the cold tap.
 
I sense some more chemistry reading coming on (it's what I really like about discussions such as this) :)

The term "heavy metal" is, from a scientific point of view, nonsensical; It has no strict definition. However, copper is defined as a heavy metal (or toxic metal) for the purposes of regulating industry and acceptable levels in the environment. As for toxicity levels for metals, it often depends on their state in the environment. For example, fully oxidised iron (Fe3+) isn't really an issue because it is insoluble, but sufficiently high levels of Fe2+ can lead to iron toxicity - "sufficiently high" being the operative phrase here. How much depends on many factors, including the subject in question (human, dog, etc. [lead is far more toxic to developing children than it is to adults]) and the aforementioned state (affects reactions and ability to absorb metals).

The copper in your pipes is generally covered by relatively inert copper oxide, so it doesn't really pose a threat, but if I were to feed you copper sulphate, you would become rather sick (CuSO4 makes a great fungicide). Incidentally, Cu is also an essential mineral for humans.

As for iron, I know that in wine making, contact between the must and iron is a big no-no as it leads to the formation of various iron-based compounds that add fault flavours to the finished wine. In the case of beer, I have no idea (hence some of the extra reading I need to do!).
 
You must also consider the age of the house you live in. Hot water from your spanking brand new sola heater has to pass/sit in copper pipes if your house is older (and if your house is really old you will have iron pipes).

Darren


Galvanised iron pipes were used for cold water whilst copper was used for hot.
More modern homes will have copper for hot and cold
.. and really modern homes may have this new fangled plastic ( came in after my time) piping that I don't trust the longevity of.

As a former plumber and now a brewer I can't see any problems with using the water from your HWS.... in fact I do it at home.


PS. ... Darrens idea of an instantaneous for sparging sounds good to me... and they are a bit cheaper nowadays as well. :)
 
I use hot water often.

Neither copper nor iron are heavy metals so if they're not in toxic amounts then I doubt a small amount of either in the weater will do much harm. Copper is only toxic in very large amounts - I guess iron is similar as in small amounts it's an essential mineral.

Please note: I am not claiming to be Mr Science man so if there's evidence to the contrary I'll switch over to the cold tap.


Hey Manticle,

Heavy metals are nowadays prohibited from HWS systems.

Perhaps look at Hemosiderosis in the liver. Not an indoctrination but simply a consideration.

cheers

Darren
 
Well, I have used hot water directly from my tap for my last 300 GALLONS of beer and I think it is perfectly safe and wonderful!

55 from the tap into the HLT, heat for 20 mins up to 80 ( a little less now that it's summer) and run it into the MLT. Adjust a few degess plus or minus and you are done! Then just fill up the HLT with more hot water, and heat it for Sparging.
 
I'm pretty lucky that the water out of my hot water system (electric storage) comes out at about 69degrees. Pretty much perfect.

The last 4-6 brews i've done have been with this hot water, and the time savings allows me to do it after work (although i was very hesitant at first). I haven't noticed the affect on these beers as they have been beers i've never made before. Maybe in the christmas break i'll try a side by side comparison for my HWS.

Cheers,
A3k
 
Hey Manticle,

Heavy metals are nowadays prohibited from HWS systems.

Perhaps look at Hemosiderosis in the liver. Not an indoctrination but simply a consideration.

cheers

Darren

Had a quick squiz - obviously requires a bit more in depth reading but my understanding is basically overdose of iron/excess iron in the blood or organs? Hopefully my skim read hasn't been a misread.

Can the simple presence of iron pipes be enough to cause this? Curious because my house (rented) is of a reasonable age (no idea about the hot water system).

Also, as someone else mentioned earlier, does heat (~50) have an effect on leaching of iron and copper or is our cold water likely to have the same (if any) risks as hot?

@Syntetease: I guess my main point was about the toxic levels of pipes being unlikely to be high enough to warrant concern. I'm presuming that if I can drink the water with no ill effects, that I can brew with it.

Otherwise I'm heading for an early grave. My dying words to my lady will be: "that's right sweetheart, it wasn't all the beer that shot my liver out, it was those damn water pipes".
 
Stainless steel tank = no sacrificial anode = less chance of metal contamination in your brew.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the very little bit of zinc from a sacrifical anode dissoveld into the water can be a good thing for yeast, ie its like a trace element.

and I always use hot water from the tap to speed things up.
 
I'm sure I read somewhere that the very little bit of zinc from a sacrifical anode dissoveld into the water can be a good thing for yeast, ie its like a trace element.

and I always use hot water from the tap to speed things up.


Nope thats copper that is a yeast nutrient.


Qldkev
 
I think the cloudy appearance, which goes quickly, is just dossolved oxygen coming out of solution becasue of the high temperature. I think some hot water systems might have zinc for cathodic corrosion protection, not sure what that means for brewing/consumption though.


Yep I would never use water from a hot water system due to the sacrificial anodes. But a lot of people say "I'm not dead from it so it must be ok"; bit like they used to say about smoking

QldKev
 
But in this case, it wouldn't really matter if you were using water from the hot or cold tap??? As they would both have the same issue, unless the higher temps makes a difference in the pipes.


yeah they do.

cheers

darren
 
Higher temps do indeed increase the solubility of toxic chemical elements in a brew.

Similarly, concentration of these ionic elements by boiling (reduction of water) increases the input (from drinking resultant beer) and hence increases toxicity.

cheers

Darren
 
I find it funny that people start wondering about what nasties they may get from water from their HWS. Have you had a look at whats in most foods you eat? Do you drink soft drinks? The caramel colour in most cola drinks is made from water, sugar, Hydrocloric acid and amonia..... and lost of the last 2. Its nasty stuff and melts holes in your clothes in its pure form...... then theres all those preservatives..... and god knows what else.

Were not talking eating lead pain off the walls here...... its hot water????

I use hot water from the tap to fill my HLT as its already close to temp and saves me lots of time...... also the power used to heat the HWS is off peak which is much cheaper power.

When i brew from my esky i use water from the hot water tap..... mixed with a touch of cold to mash in, then a bit more boiled to infuse up to mash temp. THen i sparge with nothing but HWS hot water. Its about 68 to 70 deg from the tap here.

Beers are great and im not going blind or mad or ...... well....... im already mad :)

cheers
 
Tony,

I find your "electrical engineer" post similarly funny as i do your avatar picture.

But again I guess you are right? Excessive exposure to metal ions is always encouraged as an acceptable "occupational and safelty hazard" in the mines (where you work) that the average Aussiehomebrewer should ignore?


cheers

Darren
 
@Darren: I know you suggested that metal ion seepage/contamination might be accentuated by hot water and subsequent boiling but is it likely to be in amounts anywhere close to toxic? I wash my dishes in hot tap water, boil my vegies with water from the hot tap etc etc. Will any of these practices lead to toxic levels and is beer making likely to lead to levels more toxic than any of these?
 
Tony,

I find your "electrical engineer" post similarly funny as i do your avatar picture.

But again I guess you are right? Excessive exposure to metal ions is always encouraged as an acceptable "occupational and safelty hazard" in the mines (where you work) that the average Aussiehomebrewer should ignore?


cheers

Darren

:lol:
 
snipped>
.......................... Still alive and several medal wins later I continue to do so.

GMK has moved along but I can see he has successfully passed the torch. :lol:
 

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