Warming Hops Before Using

[brett mccluskey]

I was listening to an old BBR episode the other night ,where they talked to a brewer,Gerard Semmenns, who recommended that h/bers always let their hops warm up ,if taken from the fridge or freezer,for 24 hours,to allow "undesirable" hop oils to "evaporise" (his terms).Myrcene was mentioned as one undesirable.'ve always done ths unintentionally by weighing them out the night before brewing,but was wondering if anyone actually practices this?Food for thought :icon_cheers:

 

[Bribie G]

There could be a grain of truth in this. In his Real Ale book, Graham Wheeler says that in their pursuit of the almighty Alpha Acid, many modern hop varieties have off- twangs that would have been quite unacceptable to drinkers back in the days when it was basically just Fuggles and Goldings, and that some of the 'dual purpose' hops are the worst culprits. We don't notice it so much nowadays because we have become gradually accustomed to drinking them. I guess that until just a few years ago, hops were kept from season to season in cool dark but not freezing conditions, in cloth bales that would have been open to some air circulation. Nowadays they are treated more like frozen peas, off the paddock, turned to pellets and into the freezers within a few hours.

 

[Bizier]

It will depend what you are after. As a blanket statement Europeans traditionally value a flavour is largely absent of the most volatile oils, whereas Americans have come to prize those exact flavours.

I know the Americans are trying to lock in absolutely as much volatile oils as they can. I am unsure how the different Europeans process their hops, but it might be an idea to let them warm if you are trying to brew an authentic hoppy lager like a CZ or German pils.

 

[brett mccluskey]

There could be a grain of truth in this. In his Real Ale book, Graham Wheeler says that in their pursuit of the almighty Alpha Acid, many modern hop varieties have off- twangs that would have been quite unacceptable to drinkers back in the days when it was basically just Fuggles and Goldings, and that some of the 'dual purpose' hops are the worst culprits. We don't notice it so much nowadays because we have become gradually accustomed to drinking them. I guess that until just a few years ago, hops were kept from season to season in cool dark but not freezing conditions, in cloth bales that would have been open to some air circulation. Nowadays they are treated more like frozen peas, off the paddock, turned to pellets and into the freezers within a few hours.

Ths bloke became the youngest ever brewer at Bass in the early 70's, i think.check out BBR 8/9/05 Very interesting :drinks:

 

[MrWombles]

Don't want to sound silly or nerdy- but the 'undesirable' hop elements of Myrcene mentioned boil at 160 degrees C - so I reckon they are going to hang around. When hops are fresh, they contain this stuff and it is good - only when it is exposed to air for a while, it changes (polymerize) which makes it bad. Just put them in the hop bag and put them in I reckon.. but then again. Cheers.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Don't want to sound silly or nerdy- but the 'undesirable' hop elements of Myrcene mentioned boil at 160 degrees C - so I reckon they are going to hang around. When hops are fresh, they contain this stuff and it is good - only when it is exposed to air for a while, it changes (polymerize) which makes it bad. Just put them in the hop bag and put them in I reckon.. but then again. Cheers.

Yeah.... But actually not so much.

The hydrocarbon fraction of hop oils, of which myrcene is the major example, is extremely volatile in steam and is basically gone after barley moments in the boil.

Bizier is on the money... Germans no likey the aromas associated with the hydrocarbon fraction of the hop oils and would consider any reduction of them to be desirable.

To be honest, I cant see a massive reduction in the hydrocarbon fraction occurring from just letting them warm up.... But I certainly can smell a powerful lot of aroma coming off the hops when we open the bags and pre-weigh hop additions at work. Something is coming out of those hops.... And if the nice pro brewer guy from BBR says it's the volatile hydrocarbon hop oil components, i'm willing to believe him.

Mind you, I think it's short sighted to say they are undesirable... It depends on what beer you are making. Like Bizier said, some brewers go to extraordinary extents to get those exact oils into their beer. Letting them wander off as your hops warm up overnight seems like a bad idea in that case.

Nice German lager... Yeah, sure, why not. IPA... Then it's just silly.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Yeah.... But actually not so much.

The hydrocarbon fraction of hop oils, of which myrcene is the major example, is extremely volatile in steam and is basically gone after barley moments in the boil.

Bizier is on the money... Germans no likey the aromas associated with the hydrocarbon fraction of the hop oils and would consider any reduction of them to be desirable.

To be honest, I cant see a massive reduction in the hydrocarbon fraction occurring from just letting them warm up.... But I certainly can smell a powerful lot of aroma coming off the hops when we open the bags and pre-weigh hop additions at work. Something is coming out of those hops.... And if the nice pro brewer guy from BBR says it's the volatile hydrocarbon hop oil components, i'm willing to believe him.

Mind you, I think it's short sighted to say they are undesirable... It depends on what beer you are making. Like Bizier said, some brewers go to extraordinary extents to get those exact oils into their beer. Letting them wander off as your hops warm up overnight seems like a bad idea in that case.

Nice German lager... Yeah, sure, why not. IPA... Then it's just silly.

I have got to say I think TB has covered really what you should consider. Personally I use old hops and for some reason I brew Trophy beers. Its in the application and understanding of brewing processes that will get the results.Old or new" you can do It".
GB

 

[brett mccluskey]

Yeah.... But actually not so much.

The hydrocarbon fraction of hop oils, of which myrcene is the major example, is extremely volatile in steam and is basically gone after barley moments in the boil.

Bizier is on the money... Germans no likey the aromas associated with the hydrocarbon fraction of the hop oils and would consider any reduction of them to be desirable.

To be honest, I cant see a massive reduction in the hydrocarbon fraction occurring from just letting them warm up.... But I certainly can smell a powerful lot of aroma coming off the hops when we open the bags and pre-weigh hop additions at work. Something is coming out of those hops.... And if the nice pro brewer guy from BBR says it's the volatile hydrocarbon hop oil components, i'm willing to believe him.

Mind you, I think it's short sighted to say they are undesirable... It depends on what beer you are making. Like Bizier said, some brewers go to extraordinary extents to get those exact oils into their beer. Letting them wander off as your hops warm up overnight seems like a bad idea in that case.

Nice German lager... Yeah, sure, why not. IPA... Then it's just silly.

All this is exactly what i've always thought and practiced,I weigh my pellets out 12/24 hours before use,but have always kept them covered to STOP volatile oils from escaping.I want to stress ,he wasn't looking to dissipate ALL oils/aromas,just so-called "undersirable" ones that are more easily "evaporised".This guy was not a neville nobody.Heineken,Rodenbach,Bass.40 years a brewer.etc I'll have another listen and try and get the oils he means. :drinks:

 

[Nick JD]

Before boiling I stuff my hops into my underpants giving them the HOT NUTS treatment which isomerises the BIZINGA fraction and eliminates any You Guys Need To Get A Life compounds from them.

 

[brett mccluskey]

Before boiling I stuff my hops into my underpants giving them the HOT NUTS treatment which isomerises the BIZINGA fraction and eliminates any You Guys Need To Get A Life compounds from them.

Aaaah..sarcasm! The lowest form of wit. :blink:

 

[Nick JD]

Aaaah..sarcasm! The lowest form of wit. :blink:

Ahh..I can't hear you through all those hop compounds boiling off the warm hops in my pants and staying in the solution of 100C boil.

There should be a Geek Filter on AHB. Damn fools will be testing the C14 fraction of the barley next.

 

[brett mccluskey]

Ahh..I can't hear you through all those hop compounds boiling off the warm hops in my pants and staying in the solution of 100C boil.
i
There should be a Geek Filter on AHB. Damn fools will be testing the C14 fraction of the barley next.

Do you have a point to your little diatribe? It was a comment on what i thought was a subject i hadn't seen anything much about before.I brought the subject up to stimulate intelligent,articulated,educated discussion.If you don't have anything in that manner to contribute.whats your point ffs?At times i see you make some very intelligent comments,and at other times you just shit stir for some reason.Whats your issue,NickJD? If you don't have anything positive to contribute to a thread ,why the **** are you wasting my time and yours?And too much air? :huh:

 

[felten]

Don't feed the trolls

 

[brett mccluskey]

Don't feed the trolls

I get the point,Small things to amuse small minds..etc :super:

 

[Bribie G]

Aaaah..sarcasm! The lowest form of wit. :blink:

I always thought that the bun was the lowest form of wheat.



h34r:

 

[bignath]

I always thought that the bun was the lowest form of wheat.



h34r:

That's pure gold!

 

[QldKev]

Before boiling I stuff my hops into my underpants giving them the HOT NUTS treatment which isomerises the BIZINGA fraction and eliminates any You Guys Need To Get A Life compounds from them.

Not sure if it's good for the hops, but I think it would feel pretty good on my balls in summer.

Balls Brew; not only is it a great beer, but also flosses ya teeth!


QldKev

 

[MarkBastard]

You could always put Marco Polo on your balls as it already smells like onions

 

[jayse]

Interesting, I wonder what german drinkers would think of new world/new new zealand pilsners? more then likely disgusted but personally I prefer them, I kind of liken them to a lager that even the most hard core ale drinker could get excited about.
Its these flavours that they don't want that I think make them so good.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Dunno, depend on the individual drinker I guess. But it's not noticeable or strong hop aroma that is frowned upon, it's the hydrocarbon style aromas.. The sort of stuff you get from dry hopping or from heavy use of a hopback, or a little bit from say whirlpool hops. If you put those new world hops in the boil, the same thing is going to happen to them as would happen to any other hop, and most of the hydrocarbon fractions going to go away, rather quickly, leaving behind mostly the oxygen bearing fractions, that have a finer more noble (depending on your opinion) aroma.

I quite like the new world pilsners too, been meaning to make a Nelson sauvin pilsner for a while now. Probably wont put any late hops in at all and just let whatever carries through from the 60min addition do the job. Onto the list for summer drinking beers. Out of kegs at the moment though so it will have to wait.

Besides, i'm guessing it's a lot less to do with what German drinkers might or might not like, and more to do with what German brewers think they should like....